Did Mohammed exist?
The question dared to be asked and answered in a new book by the indefatigable Robert Spencer: Did Muhammad Exist? And he does a great job of answering that question, very scientific, based on serious documentation. He has all the bases covered well, indeed, from what I have seen, which is mostly a video debate he and David Wood did with Anjem Choudary and Omar Bakri. In that debate, the Christians (Spencer-Wood) mopped the floor with the Muslims (Choudary-Bakri), the latter of whom surprisingly didn’t go ballistic at the very question of whether or not Mohammed existed. All they could do, however, other than present a few “facts” that Spencer easily swatted away, was to state over and over again that Mohammed existed because the Koran says so!
The argument here, of course, is that the Koran is the inerrant Word of God, infallibly dictated to the illiterate Mohammed by the archangel Gabriel while the “prophet” was in a cave. This Word of God was then passed along orally for years to decades, before being collected by later generations – with the result that much of it was lost. One would have thought that the omniscient and omnipotent Allah might have foreseen such a development and guaranteed that nothing would be lost by securing the transmission in writing in the first place. Or – better yet! – he could have simply made everyone instantly a perfect Muslim with the snap of his all-powerful fingers! Why rely on passing along, century after century, parts of a book probably recorded imperfectly?
In any case, at the review of Spencer’s book from The Blaze, a few Muslims are getting into it with numerous Christians, both factions defending their own cults against ridicule. The book itself is being pushed by a number of Christian and Jewish organizations with somewhat unrestrained glee.
Love how all these Christian and Jewish organizations are jumping all over this one, while steadfastly ignoring the even bigger elephant in the room!
As Robert Spencer succinctly put it concerning Mohammed: “Legendary elaboration of a mythical figure.”
Hello! That’s exactly how we can truthfully describe the “Jesus Christ” of the New Testament! And Jesus mythicists have done an equally great and scientific job analyzing the data concerning the Christian founder as Spencer has done here.
So, where’s all the media attention for that subject? (Despite Ehrman’s new book?)
*cue crickets*
Note also that on my forum we have been discussing for years whether or not Mohammed is a mythical figure.
14 thoughts on “Did Mohammed exist?”
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WAS THE GOD OF MOSES! JESUS AND MOHAMMED STUPID OR
If I remember correctly, the Angel Gabriel was usually sent on missions from heaven to earth to tell virgin or barren women they were soon to be pregnant, without the nuisance of having sex.
Could being in a hot cave with a hairy, smelly, illiterate Mohammed make the Angel Gabriel talk too fast in order to get out of there? Therefore no one could get it right, from the beginning.
The religions of Islam, Judaism and Christianity all have the same God and too many unbelievable stories, supernatural characters and unanswered questions. Very confusing. It is so much easier for me NOT to believe…even possibly thinking of them as MYTHS!
The idea that Muhammad was a fictional character is certainly an interesting one.
The well thought out and well supported arguments of The Christ Conspiracy convinced me that Jesus was fictional. I have indeed wondered if the same could also be said about Muhammad.
Perhaps I’ll someday get a hold of Spencer’s book and see what the arguments against Muhammad’s existence are. I must admit I am rather intrigued.
This has also got me wondering if we may one day see some author writing something like “Did Buddha exist?”
Spencer has guts and tenacity
In Spencers book “The Truth About Mohammad” he states that Muhammed probably did exist. But his reasoning wasn’t convincing as it seemed like a concession based upon the embarrassing facts about Muhammad’s life. ie… Who would create a prophet with those embarrassing details about his life? I am so happy that he went after the ultimate question about this guy whom nothing was written until 123 years after his death. Could it be just like the fictional story of Jesus?
The dogma in Islam that there has been only a centuries long oral tradition before writing down the Quran is of course a lie . The Jemeni Qurans (705-715A.D.(you tube)) are written without vowel markings and diacritical points , they also differ from the cairo version . It is logic that people around mohammed wrote the sayings down of the prophet in a sort of primitive arabic( there was no classical arabic but only tribal dialects) or syro-aramaic the lingua franca of those times . In my opinion he existed , but had a pretty low profile . As usual in human history , when years go by the blinded believers start to glorify the prophet(a former merchant and warlord . The life and deeds of the man become more and more absurd and megalomaniac. ) Also in the beginning Islam was just a another cult with its roots in christianity and judaism. It is known that there was a huge increase of churches and monasteries in the 8th century A.D. in Syria . So Islam wasn’t as cruel as in later times . I think Spencer is overreacting with this book . So the Jemen qurans were written 73 years after the death of Mohammed , but in my opinion there have been summeries of Quran even at Mohammeds life , it is logical to have them for learning the Quran by heart . Of course there have been made a lot of changes , of words of meanings in the 2 or 3 centuries after Mohammed’s death . The Quran is just another book of fairy tales like the stories in the bible or the torah .
Just sayin’ …
Except for being the most despicable person to ever walk the Earth, Choudary is an OK guy …
Isn’t it odd …
Peter, I’m curious, why do you think Robert is overreacting? Of course, I doubt that Robert is a true mythicist. My guess is that he’d not write a similar book about Jesus, being a Coptic and all. But, what is good for the goose is good for the gander so who knows?
However, Mohammed ain’t seen nothin’ yet. Just wait till A puts the vice grips on his mythological testicles!
I think it’s fairly humorous how we react to people writing books and challenging our long held “beliefs”. I mean, what reason do we have to believe that ANY of these gods, goddesses, prophets, redeemers, saviors, etc., existed except that we’ve been told they did all our lives and a whole bunch of people have believed it for a long time? That’s proof? Hardly.
All I can say is that Hazel Motes said it best. I just wish Flannery O’Connor was around to write a similar book on Islam and that John Huston was around to make the movie again. On second thought, it might take David Lynch AND Quentin Tarantino to do a movie on Islam.
You are Lost
You think that what you are doing is helping people get free, but you are helping them become slaves, you are not only dooming yourselves to Hell, by your blatant ignorance of the word of God, but that fact that you deny Jesus Christ as Lord, and God who is the only hope for all men’s souls, it is Jesus who is the covenant Himself of salvation, He died in your place and mine, if you don’t accept this no matter what you think you will burn forever, because you will exist apart from God forever. You are a spiritual being having a physical experience, you just live in this body for a short time and then you will die only to enter eternity and see the same God who you have mocked your whole life. Why do you make yourself a fool, why are you letting the devil deceive you as He has done so many before. You think you are gaining something because you are gaining money by abusing the name of Jesus, but you will pay for all of your words, every idol word will be judged. You are spiritually dead that is why you don’t have any feeling of the true God of the Bible. Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism etc…they all have something in common and your right they did make up their gods, the difference in the God of the Bible is that He made you up. You are His creation not the other way around. You have to understand Jesus is not a myth you would have to not no anything about Historical evidence, or to evil to accept it to not know that Jesus is real, and that He did infact to Miracles. The Bible is a reliable document it has more manuscripts then any book known to man, many miracles are still happening today by those who have accept Jesus and call on His name for Healing. You are a false prophet, satan is just trying to play good cop bad cop. On one side He taught these false prophets to create false gods, and on the other hand you are his false prophet to teach that they created them. You are a fool, there is a world you can’t see, there is a spiritual world, and there is only one God, and there is a devil. Tell me who gave you this survival instinct, tell me where are the missing links, tell me why does the universe operate in cycles, tell me why is there beauty in the universe, or why do we dream? Tell me why does a baby smile when happy, but cry when sad, what is the meaing behind it. Oh I know your perfectly happy being meaningless, but yet you have a conscious that tells you, nothing is meaningless but has providence behind it though you ignore it. What you are missing in your life is Jesus my friend. All of these so called gods were inspired by demons, who are trying to find engraven images they can use as their figure heads to draw people into deception.
Thank you for the driveby example of how intolerant and hateful Christians abuse others into their wacky cult. Much appreciated.
I am completely uninterested in the deranged opinions of vicious and mendacious people furthering the fallacious, violent and misogynistic Abrahamic cultus on this planet. I would recommend a conscience check, rather than spewing depraved insults and hate speech at people you don’t know in the least.
Now, if you would like drop your sociopathic sickness and learn some FACTS, rather than attempting to bludgeon us with psychotic Jewish fairytales, I would highly recommend reading my books, in which I prove that [b]Jesus most assuredly is a myth[/b]. And a very nasty one at that, used to torture and slaughter millions of people worldwide and serving as the inspiration for vile hate speech against those who are not mindless and blind believers.
Sorry, but, again, I am not interested in your human-abusing cult of violence and hatred, but it sounds like you’d fit right in with this crew:
VICTIMS OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH ([url]http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htm[/url])
Goward Do you know your god?
Well Goward that is a common attitude of Christians , Catholics, they call us ignorant. (The ones who want to search for the truth)
I know the bible, the Koran , the Vedas. I studied religion in search of the truth.
And this attitude of calling us ignorant is use quite often. Is a pity we can not be face to face to prove you otherwise .
You attack Archarya on her posture of finding the true history. But you don’t quote any of her work. Is clear that you are not prepare for an intelligent debate.
You say “by your blatant ignorance of the word of God”
I do not know you , but I think that like a normal person in ordinary habits , you compare , before purchasing , anything , for examples apples in the market. Or compare a supplier of services and products.
We always compare, phones , cars, clothes, etc…
Except in the most important part of our lives.
RELIGION.
In order to compare , we must at the same time be critics about the things we see.
¿Have you ever questioned jesus?
I do debates, in Christians, Jewish, Islamic, Catholics centers.
Did you know the Koran , teach us that the mountains are moving like the wind?
That the water of the oceans are different?
That are 7 levels of air to the sky?
Woow, Mohammed is right¡¡¡¡¡ Yes is true¡¡¡¡
How about jesus Christ?
Well he only refers to the created world in the parable of the seed of the mustard.
Mark 4:30-34
Well, he is wrong , twice¡¡¡¡
The smallest seed is the ORCHID
The olive tree for example, can grow to 20 feet or more. The mustard tree known as Salvadora persica has extremely small seeds and grows into a small bush. Brassica nigra is a mustard plant that grows to about 8 to 10 feet.
The birds DO NO NEST on them they are too short and easily at the reach of predators
So Jesus Christ , the son of god, the creator , and the holy spirit can´t get this right?
Then the eternal justification…ho…well , he was talking locally.
Because is a local fairy tale.
Do you know that the 4 gospels are made of 2 who were not apostles?
Luke and Mark, are not mentioned by jesus, never authorized by him. This 2 guys wrote their story, full of contradictions against the “2 real apostles”
Mark 1-2 Is lying , the prophecy is not from Isaiah , originally form Malachi 3.1
Luke and Mathew have many differences in the genealogy of jesus
Luke (who was not there ) tells that jesus was born in the Quirinius census, and matthew in the time of herod. Those are 2 different dates.
Like 2:16(who was not there) tells that jesus was born in a stable, and Mathew 2:11(real apostle ) tells that he receive the kings in a HOUSE¡¡¡¡
Have you ever questioned the perfect word of God?
Jesus is just born and full of contradictions.
Is logical 2 apostles who were there against 2 who were not there.
IF we are going to believe in something, we must believe in the ones who were there.
Mark 1.2 WRONG
Genealogy of Luke different from Mathew WRONG
Luke timing in Quirinius WRONG
Luke 2.16 VS Matthew 2.11
Have you read the book of Da Vinci Code
This book give you clues of the real history of the integration of the bible.
There is a scene in a dining table where the character of the actor Ian MC Kellen , Gives the more accurate an important clue of the movie.
Jesus Christ was created in the year 325 in the council of Nicea by 318 ignorant people by vote .
That is the history .
Imperator Constantine believe in Jesus Christ after receiving the favor of killing Majencio his enemy.
Archarya has found ,and confirm that in the time of Egypt.
The first mother virgin of a savior in religion history. Is Isis.
Toth was the first “Gabriel Archangel”
In Egypt, Lazarus, 12 apostles, john the Baptist etc… were before the time of Christ.
Then in time other societies , copy the miracles so they do not stand behind in power. Attis, Buddha , Krishna, Dionysius, etc…
Jesus is the last and most complete of all.
SUPERMAN JESUS CHRIST.
His purpose is to calm down the religious bomb of Rome. So Jesus is integrated with legends, miracles , tales, of the gods of the dominated societies by Rome
Egyptian Culture dominated had in jesus their resurrection , their, q25th of December, 12 apostles, miracles , the virgin
Buddha (India). . Do your treasure in heaven, give the other cheek.
Mitra (Rome) Eucharistic
Greeks Dionysius almost the same story.}
And many more, I advise you to read Archarya’s work.
Have you ever talked with a Jew?
Have you EVER gave to them the right to explain themselves why they do not believe in Jesus?
One thing is the tales of the new testament and another history
Jesus Christ FAILS to solve the problems that the Jew people suffered with the Romans. IN THAT TIME.
Specific terrible problems are not even mentioned in the New Testament.
These are the specific social problems that jesus failed to solve.
1. MILITARY OCUPATION
Do you remember Centurions in Palestine?
Are you aware of the Illegal and cruel military occupation of Romans in Palestine?
I DARE you to find a verse where your jesus condemns the occupation. Where he orders them to stop the roman ambition for power?
No, you wont find it.
2. RAPING OF WOMAN AND CHILDREN.
I DARE YOU to tell me were jesus refers about the raping of woman and children by mainly centurions.
No, you wont find it.
3 SLAVERY
Of the young Jew virgins and Androgyny boys for sexual slavery.
Of the woman and men for domestic slavery.
Of the men who were rebel and send to hard working slavery.
I DARE YOU to look for a verse where stops slavery.
Did you know that your beloved jesus , USES SALVERY IN HIS PARABLES? To give moral lessons.
Do you remember the word MASTER in his parables?
Did you know that in time they edited the word slavery into , servant so you and millions of people do not notice , that the perfect son of god accepts slavery.
4 TORTURE AND EXECUTION TO THE JEWS .
Roman cruelty against the Jew people, the citizens suffered many and sore on which account they every day underwent great miseries and bitter torments; for they were whipped with rods, and their bodies were torn to pieces, and were crucified, while they were still alive, and breathed.
I DARE YOU To tell me PLEASE¡¡¡where jesus defends his people against this massacre?
No, you wont find it
5. ALCOHOLISM
I DARE YOU to inform me where jesus talks about the rampant alcoholism of the Romans. . People were afraid of drunk centurions in the streets, they have the power to do whatever they wanted with the civilians .
6. PROSTITUTION.
I DARE YOU to pin point where jesus helps his people to avoid falling into roman prostitution.
7. OPIUM Introduction of First Roman opium drugs to Palestine
I DARE YOU to find in the New testament , where jesus prohibits the use of opium .
8. GAMES
Gladiatory killing games
Table games gambling slaves and torture
I DARE YOU to show us where jesus orders to stop the cruel gambling of the Romans.
9 ROMAN PAGANISM
Romans try to force the introduction of Roman gods
Pharisees and jesus never quarrel about ONE god. But the romans try to impose the Pagan gods
Why jesus NEVER EVER mentioned that those gods are pagan?
10. GREEK HOMOSEXUAL GODS.
In Palestine where many Greek towns.
Why jesus NEVER EVER entered any of the Greek town ?
Why jesus NEVER EVER abolish Greek gods?
Why jesus NEVER EVER condemns , the homosexuality , Incest, Bisexuality of
Many Loves of Hercules
Hercules and Hylas
Zeus and Ganymede
Poseidon and Pelops
Apollo and Hyacinth
Apollo and Cyparissus
Pan and Daphnis
Narcissus and Echo
Orpheus and Eurydice
Achilles and Patroclus
Laius and Chrysippus
Why jesus does not judged THE GREEKS homosexual gods
Greek men wrote about their love for other men the most loved boys were usually age 12-14.
11. ANIMAL SACRIFICE
I DARE you to tell me where he stops animal sacrifice and cruelty?
Before and after jesus , animal sacrifices continue in all regions and societies
Why he did not stop this ?
12 A WORD OF LOVE TO HIS MOTHER.
I DARE YOU TO find a word of love to his mother the bloody Virgin Mary
You will not find it. Not a word of worship, respect or adoration.
Jesus was created in a time where the woman was a “THING”.
He acted like a normal man under the patriarch regime.
Remember How rude jesus is her mother in the wedding of Canaan?
This is why Jews do not believe in Jesus Christ the savior.
He neither does nor lifts a finger against the Roman Empire, because he was created by them.
You r beloved Jesus Christ only attacks the hypocrisy of the Jews.
Roman and Greek sins do not exist foe the all mighty jesus.
Have you ever talked with a Jew about “the wisdom “of Jesus?
Do you know that his teaching and parables are well known before he existed?
His wisdom is from Jewish parables, songs, popular wisdom.
NOTHING NEW FOR THE JEW PEOPLE.
His word is so imperfect that generates controversy and opinion. BECAUSE THOSE ARE SONGS , PARABLES , POPULARS WSIDOM COPIED FROM THE JEWS.
Have you observed all the sects that follow Christ?
Witness of Yahweh , Messiah Jews, Christians , Catholics, Lutherans , Protestants, Mormons, Calvinists, Anglicans, Babtips , Ana babtips , Congrasionist , Puritans, Evangelicals, etc All the orthodox churches, Rumanian, Lithuania, Russian, etc…
Above them the Jew people that laugh about how all this arrogant , ignorant sects are interpreting the word of jesus that comes from a
SONG,or POPULAR WISDOM.and for that they hate and kill each other.
Archarya NEVER EVER said she was a prophet. Do you see how easily you people invent things?
She is well educated and difficult to cheat with false prophets , like Jesus Christ
The god who does not know his own creation ,and did not solve any historical sin.
Just say Jesus is lord, and I believe Jesus died on the cross for my sins, and arose from the dead, fill me with The Holy Spirit in Jesus name Amen
Brilliant job Robert
Robert: You did a great job. I’ll give you that
You put forward some cogent and well thought out arguments in front of two goons, bumbling idiots who don’t have a clue how to argue the existence of Prophet Muhammad. These two goons could not prove they existed or if they had a braincell in their skull.
So a job well done on picking buffoons to argue with.
You may have gotten more credibility if you had picked Islamic scholars, or educated Muslims who could put forward a good argument.
Despite your decade long work, why is that you are failing and Islam keeps on growing?
Was Salaam
Thank you for your remarks. We are not the author of this book. If you wish to address the author, Robert Spencer, you will need to go to his website:
http://Jihadwatch.org ([url]http://Jihadwatch.org[/url])
What about Ibm Hishaq and Ibn Ishaq?
One of the most authentic biographies of the Prophet Muhammad were written by Ibn Ishaq and Ibn Ishaq. Why do you disregard these books documented.
Sulah e Hudaibah and other treaties signed carry the signature and the seal of Rasool Allah. Why have you disregarded the historical treaties that exist to this date
Also the “Meesaq e Medinah” signed between the Jews of Medina with the prophet is a living document.
Additionally, the Jews of Medinah have described in detail the things done to the Banu Quraizah
There are also references from King Negus to Prophet Muhammad. Roman and Byzantine emperors also got letters from Prophet Muhammad.
You used Ayesha as a source. If you use here as a source, you have accept that she existed. She was used as a reference for a missing piece (surat) of the Quran –when she was busy with the burial of the prophet Mohammad. So according to your own ref. Prophet Muhammad existed!
Aliphbay
Letters of the Prophet Muhammad written to various
Here are letters of the Prophet Muhammad written to various kings
http://www.kalamullah.com/Books/The%20letters%20of%20the%20Prophet%20Muhammad%20to%20the%20Kings%20beyond%20Arabia.pdf