Ancient Jerusalem wall proves Bible?
An Israeli archaeologist is claiming that an excavated foundation wall in Jerusalem is a remnant of the First Temple Period 3,000 years ago and that it therefore “proves” the Bible. The discovery is being touted as proof of the biblical accounts of King David and his son Solomon, who are raised up as great heroes in the biblical tales, despite abundant misdeeds and signs of poor character in the same accounts.
As related by the Associated Press’s Matti Friedman:
An Israeli archaeologist said Monday that ancient fortifications recently excavated in Jerusalem date back 3,000 years to the time of King Solomon and support the biblical narrative about the era.
If the age of the wall is correct, the finding would be an indication that Jerusalem was home to a strong central government that had the resources and manpower needed to build massive fortifications in the 10th century B.C.
That’s a key point of dispute among scholars, because it would match the Bible’s account that the Hebrew kings David and Solomon ruled from Jerusalem around that time.
While some Holy Land archaeologists support that version of history — including the archaeologist behind the dig, Eilat Mazar — others posit that David’s monarchy was largely mythical and that there was no strong government to speak of in that era….
The mention of the theory that “David’s monarchy was largely mythical” raises the notion that the king himself would likewise be “largely mythical,” i.e., unhistorical. The fact that this find is apparently being used to prove the existence of David and Solomon demonstrates that their existence has been in doubt, especially during the past few decades of serious archaeological and scientific examination and inquiry in biblical lands.
Although I contend that major biblical characters such as Abraham, Moses, Joshua and David are indeed “largely mythical,” a main reason I reserve some historicity for certain biblical characters and events is because much of the Temple mount, for example, has not yet been excavated, and the Bible wasn’t written in a void. There were people writing it, and they came from somewhere, including a culture that had developed somewhat. It wasn’t the supernatural megapower of the OT, but it wasn’t quite caveman either, as Israel has been occupied by humans for many thousands of years.
However, before we jump to the conclusion that this discovery indicates the biblical accounts of this period are true, we need to keep in mind several facts, including that the name “David” – among others, including “Saul” – can be found on Canaanite tablets at Ebla, some six centuries prior to the supposed existence of King David. Any king by that name, therefore, could still be a mere petty thane who was styled after a tribal god, rather than the great hero with the vast empire as depicted in the Bible. In other words, the Bible remains “proved” to be some history with much myth, fable and hyperbole thrown in.
Moreover, a “largely mythical” David could not be the progenitor of a “historical” Jesus, as asserted in the New Testament. That seems to be a fact largely overlooked by Bible-minimalists.
Sources & Further Reading
In ancient wall, scholar sees proof for Bible
What about the Mesha Stele, Tel Dan Stele and Black Obelisk?
62 thoughts on “Ancient Jerusalem wall proves Bible?”
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How does this “prove” the bible?
🙂 columbus!? flat earth!?
duh?
Bible says Earth is sphere.
Isa 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
O Ye of Little Faith!
O, its ever so hard to continually find proof the Bible
is an historical document. In Genesis 1:9-13 the word
says the earth is a sphere. I’m guessing nobody has
any dispute with that fact, eh? Except how did the
“almost cave-men” of the time figure that on out so
much earlier than we did?
O ye of little faith!
OH Yeah?
:-?: Genesis says that the Earth is a sphere?
Genesis 1:9-13 (King James Version)
9And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
11And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
13And the evening and the morning were the third day
Where does it say that?
It doesn’t say that at all, and even if it did…
Genesis 1:9-13 makes no mention of the Earth being spherical, and even if it did, that would be no proof of anything except that someone realized the Earth is spherical, which plenty of people did in ancient time by simply noticing that boats traveling a few leagues outward always descended below the horizon. We didn’t just grow brains in the last few centuries, you know, even if Western Civilization had been dumbed down for a while in Medieval times (by the church no less).
Can I ask why faith is valued more than reason? That just seems so contrary to one’s best interests. What’s the sense of having this great brain if we’re supposed to ignore its output? Why should a person take anything on faith? A real god wouldn’t demand such a thing. Only a petty insecure god would. Of course, faith benefits the churches handsomely. But what does it do for the “faithful”?
There’s a reason the Enlightenment was called the “Enlightenment”.
Many, many ancient cultures knew this — this is not a unique fact that the Bible allegedly describes. People knew this because ships would disappear over the horizon and because they could see the shadow of the Earth on the moon during eclipses.
The bible is 100% fact and truth , the word of God people always go by mans rule for some reason , they never take into account that the God who created all the heavens and the earth would help man do things we might seem impossible thinking in only human terms.
Wow! I see you’ve fallen for the Jewish propaganda hook, line and sinker!
Nice job. Your handlers must be very pleased.
Tomsk – ever heard of the Wombles?
I don’t know which bible you read there in Tomsk-land but there is nowt in the KJV version of Gen 1: 9-13 that alludes to the Earth being described as a ‘sphere…
Genesis 1:9-13 (King James Version)
9And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
11And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
13And the evening and the morning were the third day
Nope, no matter how hard I try (one eye closed and the other squinting sort of look as well) I can see no reference to a sphere, circle or round planet…
Care to lie again???
Perhaps he meant this scripture…
(Isa 40:22) He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in.
This verse talks about the circle of the earth. When you look at a sphere from any angle, you basically see it as a circle.
Wow! I see you’ve fallen for the Jewish propaganda hook, line and sinker!
Nice job. Your handlers must be very pleased.
i bet they find king david ,moses ,the joker and batman writen
in the wall
Billy – look closer
It’s true the exact scripture Tomsk used may not be the one that does state the earth was a circle — however, in Isaiah 40:22 it does.
It’s a little better understanding of the context of what was being said here if you start reading at verse 18. Nevertheless, here is verse 22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain and spreadeth them out out as a tent to dwell in: (Gee sounds like God is speaking about the ozone layer that covers the earth too!).
Sigafus – that is not closer…
Woah woah woah woah… D. Sig…
First of all Isaiah is not Genesis – I’m sure if Tomsk meant another book he would have said so… unless he is the character in the Wombles?
Secondly – Now I know this might be a bit of a bizarre concept for yea to understand – but if yea sitteith on a highish place then yea can actually see the curvature of the Earth – ergo if what you can see looks like the start of a circle then it would be safe to assume they thought of the Earth as a circle.. Hence the sitteth upon the circle of the Earth reference.. They were close – but still no banana..
Gee – you are wrong about the ozone layer too – but thankfully I have ran out of bananas..
Isaiah 40:22
He would sit’s upon the circle of the earth … Isaiah 40:22 written somewhere about 792 B.C.
What a joke
The bible is full of holes and contradictions, any church claiming it is the inviolate recorded word of God has to work overtime to weave a story out of it that suits their political aims to pacify and control their members. As a history book it is very poorly written, and there is NO credible science in it. It has some good morals, but beyond that it should be taken with a great deal of skepticism.
Wheat, and tares. God is now, and always has been in charge. It doesn’t matter what you think, or interpret, God is going to sort this all out really soon. God chose his people from he foundation of the earth. The bible wasn’t written to be easily understood, it is written in parable fashion and is its own dictionary. Comparing scripture with scriture is the only reliable form of interpretation. The bible is the word of God, and is not the writings of Nostradamus, or some soothsayer, it doesn’t predict future events, it simply states what will happen. Prepare yourselves, for the Kingdom of God is at hand.
Seriously?
Any god that has to “sort this out really soon” doesn’t sound like a god at all. Why not create it “right” the first time? And why would such a “god” not spell things out clearly in the first place? It makes absolutely NO SENSE – none of the “god is perfect” explanations make any sense whatsoever. Someone asked why “god” would give us a brain and then not expect us to use it. Logic doesn’t jibe with “god” in the way most religious folks explain.
Uh, yeah, seriously…
We were created with FREE WILL… all created beings have FREE WILL and were created separate from God… as in we choose to
follow God or not…
So your whole “why didn’t He create it right to begin with” argument falls apart.
Maybe instead of doubting God you should STUDY the Bible before passing judgment… and judging by your statements, I’m sure you don’t know much if anything about the Bible. Perhaps you will say that is not sufficient, but in response I will say to you that the issues are so complex, and the Bible’s depths so deep, that you really need to pick up a King James Version and read/study it cover to cover. The Bible is God’s revelation of himself to humans. It details the history of this world. It details the sorry of SALVATION… from the time of the Fall, to the giving of the Law, and finally the fulfillment of the Law in Jesus Christ who IS GOD made FLESH.
The original sin was man doubting God’s Word. They were not to eat of tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The serpent (Satan (meaning adversary), who was Lucifer (meaning light bearer), but had fallen and took 1/3 of the angels in Heaven with him in doing so, was given the RULE of this world) was in the garden and said to Eve if she eats of the fruit she will be “as gods” and “surely she won’t die.” Which is the opposite of what God had told them saying do not eat of the tree “lest ye die.”
So we see on Earth that EVERYTHING revolves around this original sin. All religions except the Christian religion stem from Mystery Babylon (check out William Cooper’s radio series Mystery Babylon for all the information…vindicated by my own personal research before I heard it) and seek to but the created being in the place of God, as God, or being able to attain Godhood… which is EXACTLY what Lucifer tried to do when he wanted to exalt his throne above God. Lucifer was the most beautiful, most powerful angel before the Fall.
Bible old or new myths were never true
The popular free to view online video titled “Zeitgeist” is a decent primer for the origins of the frauds also known as the three Abrahamic faiths of judism, christianity, and islam. It is fitting they should include the older parable with in their new script, of the strong good tree giving good fruit, and the bad weak tree giving bad fruit. The tree (Good? Bad?) of judism as the factual plagiarized work that it is (oh, Bad!), can only be described as the bad tree with its fruity offspring of both christianity and islam also being the bad fruits. Their historic and present actions seem to confirm this premise.
The judism script is a future land grab in plot. The errors are the center of attention with their self serving scriipt. The two blue stripes of their flag represent the two rivers, most people falsely assuming the Nile and Euphrates rivers. They were of ‘Babylonian’ origin right!?! so that would entail only those two found at the junction of the Tigress and Euphrates rivers right around where Baghdad is today. Is there after all a hidden agenda to the attack Iraq lies and liars. The same lies are being told over Iran by the same liars.
When will people that do believe in these ridiculous stories as some words of a God, when you can quickly find vast amounts of data to the contrary, why do you still support these injust acts by parasites that by their very profession demands that they lie to you.
Meatwas, Ssuppet
How does this prove that David, Abraham, Moses, Joshua are “largely mythical”? Has the author even studied the Bible? Most people who critisize the Bible and its contents don’t even know what it says. but they’re “expert” enough to say it’s mythical!
No one has said that [i]this [/i]find proves these biblical characters to be mythical. Read it again.
That being said, “the author” – [b]me[/b] – [i]has [/i]read the Bible many times. In fact, it’s because I know the Bible so well that I can write about it in detail, including all these characters, as I have done for many years. Indeed, I regularly read the Bible in its original languages of Greek and Hebrew.
It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that all these supernatural events have no basis in reality and that these characters must therefore be “largely mythical.” Moreover, there is an entire, massive body of research about ancient religions and myths from other cultures that readily demonstrates the mythology of the Old Testament.
Even fundamentalist Christian scholars are aware of much of this research, such as Sumerian and Babylonian texts. The only reason anyone continues to cling to the clearly erroneous notion of this manmade text being “God’s Word” is through conditioning, not reason.
Idiot
What a bold statement you make…”Bible remains “proved” to be some history with much myth, fable and hyperbole thrown in.”…Who proved it to have myth and fable and hyperbole? Don’t make such broad statements because I can PROMISE you, you have no such evidence. Poppycock!
I see, people who doubt the supernatural claims made by one particular ethnicity – in this case, Hebrews, Jews, Israelites, et al. – are “idiots,” while people who believe these fabulous fairytales without any proof are not idiots, apparently.
It doesn’t matter that, as discussed in this article, there is not a stitch of proof of these supernatural events attributed to Jewish characters – we are “idiots” not to believe them and to conclude that they are [i]myths[/i].
Perhaps you need to work on providing the evidence for the Bible’s extraordinary claims, instead of going around trying to sell people snake oil without any evidence.
The evidence of the myths in the Bible is actually quite massive – as can be seen from what I have gathered in my books ([url]http://stellarhousepublishing.com[/url]) – but very few people have bothered to study the subject. Instead, they obviously rely on ridiculing people into believing these supernatural claims.
Scientific people, however, will not be content to be compelled through ridicule and hostility to believe without any evidence in the supernatural claims found in the Bible.
Do you believe the extraordinary, supernatural claims by [i]other [/i]cultures, such as the ancient Greeks, Romans, Egyptians and so on? Or are you bigoted against all of [i]them[/i], accepting only the unproved and unscientific claims of this [i]one [/i]culture, because their book of propaganda says it is “God’s Word?”
Shall we deem you an “idiot” because you don’t believe in the myths of [i]other [/i]cultures as having taken place in history?
For those of us who have actually studied the subject of the Bible and its patent mythology, my statement is hardly “bold.” It is obvious.
I myself have studied the Bible quite thoroughly. Snake oil is indeed what YOU sell! People such as yourself take flimsy “evidence” and declare its power to disprove, when in fact it does nothing. Do you think that because things such as “The Epic of Gilgamesh” have been discovered that it somehow negates the accuracy of what was told by the Jewish people? Who is to say which people had the exact details right? You? Were you there? “Scientific people, however, will not be content to be compelled through ridicule and hostility to believe without any evidence..” Give me a break! It seems they have no problems believing in their outlandish Darwinian theories without evidence. And when the “evidence” doesn’t turn out to fit the scheme, they tweak it (i.e. Spontaneous Evolution). You don’t know the Bible as well as you purport and it’s pretty obvious. I don’t care that you are an author or that you read it in Greek and Hebrew(I doubt it). To answer your question, I don’t rule out ANY cultures tales of the supernatural or divine. On the contrary, I SPECIALIZE in the study of it and am writing a book concerning the similarities. Remember this though…just because two cultures or people share similar or even identical experiences doesn’t mean that one or both is either lying or plagiarizing. Perhaps they BOTH experienced it or BOTH just happen to know the details of the same story!
“Scientific people, however, will not be content to be compelled through ridicule and hostility to believe without any evidence..”
Thank you for providing me with an example of what I was talking about in that sentence.
Despite your insults, which demonstrate that you do not know me or my work at all, I still don’t believe in the extraordinary claims in the Jewish book of propaganda.
Do you believe in Hercules, Zeus and Aphrodite? Why not? Do the Greeks not deserve your blind belief?
Hercules, Zeus and Aphrodite
As to your claim that I provided you with an example, what a stupid statement. I didn’t try to compel you to believe anything. I simply stated that you might be wrong, that perhaps you don’t know all that you think you do…hardly an attempt to get you to accept a belief. You’re just desperately grasping at straws with that statement, probably because you suspect I’m no fool and I seem to know a bit more on the subject than the average person
Why do you suppose I would not believe in these characters(Hercules, Zeus, Aphrodite), when I myself TOLD you that I most certainly don’t rule out other cultural myths and legends. I believe that these characters are based on hazy memories of real individuals. I have no doubt that most legend is based at least loosely on fact.
You came out of nowhere and posted insults about my person in an attempt to badger me into believing your perspective. It is hardly “stupid” to point out that fact. Instead of acknowledging your anti-social behavior, you insult me again in an attempt to compel me into your perspective.
As concerns your comments regarding there being some truth to the myths, absolutely – that’s what my work is all about. But, despite your insulting messages, you don’t know anything about me or my work.
And what you are espousing is called “evemerism.” I have discussed this view extensively over the past 15 years online.
Here is a forum thread on the subject:
Evemerism v. Mythicism ([url]http://freethoughtnation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2160[/url])
The truth behind the myths is largely astrotheological, not a reflection of “real people.” Zeus, Hercules, Athena, Osiris, Horus, Krishna, and so on were never “real people.” They are personified natural phenomena. Ditto with the bulk of the other gods and goddesses, including many “Jewish” characters found in the Bible.
Vedas
Sorry but you missed a point in there. Krshna was never accepted as an mythological personality. The Greeks of the past accept Krishna as the facto personality as well the Indian intelligentsia up to about the English take over. Since the Vedas where translated by basically Christian missionaries or under strong Christian slant under the overpaid (why?) Mr. Max Muller, it gave no reference to the commentaries of the previous authorities going back millennias. Krshna’s Bhagavad-Gita, under proper commentary as it is, is as compelling and instructive as was 5,108 years ago when it was actually spoken on the Battlefield of Kurukshetra.
And by the way there are innumerable descriptions in the Vedas of planets, including the earth, as “lokas” which means “round islands”.
Christ
Does not prove a thing until you have the writings of that time
no written record at that time.
show me or of jesus time.
The Bible is from God!
The Bible does say that the Earth is round!
The prophet Isaiah said that around 800 years before Christ’s first coming, [i]verbis[/i]:
Isaiah 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
There is much more science in the Bible than the unbelievers will ever find out. The apostle Paul already knew about physics and molecules 2000 years ago. Read this:
Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
There is much more in the Bible that I could share but that would take me to write down a treatise in order to explain it all.
The other day I was watching `The Discovery Channel`and the were explaining how a giraffe functions. They were amazed at how the blood never fail to reach its brain, even when the giraffe moves it enormous neck up and down. The scientist explained that the giraffe has `valves` that keeps the flow of blood constant at all times. He could not refrain from saying that it is a beautiful `projetc`, but then realized the implication of what he was saying and `corrected ` himself and said `a beautiful evolution`…
That is why Christ always talked through parables, for His truths were meant to His faithful disciples only, not to the unbelievers.
If one want to believe he can, if not, he still can. That is free will that God gave to everyone. God is preparing us to be part of His family, and the first prerequisite to be part of it is TO LOVE HIM ABOVE ALL ELSE. If one lacks that, God will let him live his life alone and save himself when he dies.
To the faithful there are many promises, including this one,[i] verbis[/i]:
1 Co 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
Blessings, Luiz Eduardo.
It takes an awful lot of faith to be an atheist! 😮
It takes an awful lot of faith to be an atheist!
Faith is not a function of an atheist. Actually it takes a lot of research, study and deep searching and thought. Which is a lot more than most people of faith have ever done.
JESUS WAS NOT A Jew
Benjamin H. Freedman, Jewish Historian – Researcher – Scholar.
From “Common Sense”, p. 2-1-53 and 5-1-59
“Christians have been duped by the unholiest hoax in all history, by so-called Jews. This is considered their most effective weapon.”
“This ‘big lie’ technique is brainwashing United States Christians into believing that Jesus Christ was “King of the Jews”, in the sense that so-called ‘Jews’ today call themselves ‘Jews’. This reference was first made in English translations of the Old and New Testaments, centuries before the so-called Jews highjacked the word ‘Jew’ in the 18th century A.D. to palm themselves off on the Christian world as having a kinship with Jesus Christ. This alleged kinship comes from the myth of their common ancestry with the so-called ‘Jews’ of the Holy Land in the Old Testament history, a fiction based on fable.”
“American Christians little suspect they are being brainwashed twenty-four hours of every day over television and radio, by newspapers and magazines, by motion pictures and plays, by books, by political leaders in office and seeking office, by religious leaders in their pulpits and outside their churches, by leaders in the field of education inside and outside their curricular activities, and by all leaders in business, professions and finance, whose economic security demands that they curry the favor of so-called “Jews” of historic Khazar ancestry. Unsuspecting Christians are subjected to this barrage from sources they have little reason to suspect. Incontestable facts supply the unchallengeable proof of the historic accuracy that so-called “Jews” throughout the world today of eastern European origin are unquestionably the historic descendants of the Khazars, a pagan Turko-Finn ancient Mongoloid nation deep in the heart of Asia, according to history, who battled their way in bloody wars about the 1st century B.C. into eastern Europe where they set up their Khazar kingdom. For some mysterious reason the history of the Khazar kingdom is conspicuous by its absence from history courses in the schools and colleges.
“The historic existence of the Khazar kingdom of so-called “Jews”, their rise and fall, the permanent disappearance of the Khazar kingdom as a nation from the map of Europe, and how King Bulan and the Khazar nation in about 740 A.D. became so-called “Jews” by conversion, were concealed from American Christians by censorship imposed by so-called “Jews”, of historic Khazar ancestry, upon all U.S.A. media of mass communications directed by them. Then in 1945 this author gave nation-wide publicity to his many years intensive research into the “facts of life” concerning Khazars. The disclosures were sensational and very effective but apparently angered so-called “Jews” who have continued to vent their spleen upon this author since then solely for that reason. Since 1946 they have conducted a vicious smear campaign against him, seeking thus to further conceal these facts, for obvious reasons. What have they to fear from the truth?
“In an original 1903 edition of the Jewish Encyclopedia in New York’s Public Library, and in the Library of Congress, Volume IV, pages 1 to 5 inclusive, appears a most comprehensive history of the Khazars. Also in the New York Public Library are 327 books by the world’s greatest historians and other sources of reference, in addition to the Jewish Encyclopedia, dealing with Khazar history, and written between the 3rd A.D. and 20th centuries by contemporaries of the Khazars and by modern historians on that subject.”
“JESUS WAS NOT A Jew”
Correct. Jesus was a mythical figure ([url]http://truthbeknown.com/origins.htm[/url]) who is a combination of characteristics and sayings from Judaism [i]and [/i]Paganism.
Ancient wall proves someone built a wall there
But it doesn’t prove the bible in any way. So what if there was a wall.
Oops forgot to make my point.
My point was that there were a lot of empires, dynasties and so on.. in the middle east, and the Jews never had a real history or any great glommed out dynasty to brag about, so they stole most of it from the pagan peoples and lands that they either tricked their way into or forced their way.
SO, when I hear about these finds that supposedly prove the bible, I ask…OK, who were the people that really lived there and were they another pagan society destroyed by the war mongering desert nomads?
Too cynical? Lol
I couldn’t agree more!
Syrian Nationalist Party,
Along with Acharya S’ book ‘Christ in Egypt’ (which I embarrassed to admit that I have not read yet) Ahmed Osman has written a series of books about the Hebrew and Egyptian connection. He argues that Moses and Akhenaten were one and the same and that there is some validity to the bible, but it is all stolen from Egyptian history and places Moses/Akhenaten in the 18th dynasty. His books are easy to read and he makes some very valid points. I personally don’t believe Jesus ever existed, but he makes a convincing argument that Jesus and the boy king Tut were one and the same.
Acharya,
I have read ‘The Christ Conspriracy’, ‘The sun’s of God’, and ‘Who was Jesus?’. I am a big fan of your writing and books and look forward to reading all of your books, but being a student with lots of required reading material leaves me little time. ‘Christ in egypt’ is at the very top of my next to read list.
Thnx!
Amy
Amy, it’s a pleasure to meet you!
I always appreciate someone who enjoys the fascinating material I have worked hard to bring forth.
I think you will enjoy [i]Christ in Egypt[/i] ([url]http://stellarhousepublishing.com/christinegypt.html[/url]).
Isreal Finkelstein
Read “The Bible Unearthed.” and you will get a better clearer idea – and also “David and Solomon.” by Isreal Finkelstein.
Read also George Roux’ book called “Ancient Iraq.”
The truth is that the Bible, weritten on in about the 6th Century BC is mostly stories taken from the surrounding cultures. For example,
it was Sargon the Great who was placed in a basket, sealed with tar or pitch, the basket was placed on the River Tigris and when it came to rest in the reeds at the bottom of the palace garden the baby Sargon was rescued and grew up in the palace – and the rest IS history.
This was in about 2334.BC
The tablets of The Law was the inspiration (from God of course,) of Hammurabhi, long before any so called “Moses.”
Then there is the story of UtNishpatim who built the Ark at the command of God – the exact story the wrote up and called him Noah.
The Song of Songs was the love song of a priestess of ancietn Sumeria to her king – and nothing at all to do with “Solomon.”
There was no temple in Jerusalem but there was a description of an Egyptian temple in the bible – and Judea was a province of Egypt.
Read Finkelstein – he is a lot more objective.
reply to, uh, “Syrian Nationalist Party”
It’s nice to see that, for all your wonderful knowledge of history, you subscribe to Sitchin’s theories as the end-all be-all of independent scientific study and debate. I’d love to have a nice debate with you, if you could at least take into consideration that Marduk may have not been some evil extraterrestrial ruler from the planet f**k-all.
@Syrian Nationalist Party
Your information is great, thanks for the post, I enjoyed the info about the archeology, but try not to include your hate of gays next time, or people may question you as a person, if you need to come out of the closet or something, it’s no big deal, just come to terms with it, this makes life better for everyone, including yourself. Maybe i’m misreading the context of your use of terms like fagot in a very hateful way, maybe your just pissed and calling them a jerk, but then you say fagot again and proceed to talk about “fantasizing about his nudity” hmmmm, do you need to come to terms with something here?
anyone want to buy a used pomegranate?
“Israeli archeologist.”
Isn’t this an oxymoron?
Here’s a man, an incredible human being with immense knowledge and comprehension.
Also, he practices what he preaches…
Just Google:
bhakti ananda goswami who’s jesus
When Maitreya is introduced to everyone as the “Christ” and it proves everything in Revelations. You will go back to your little deceptive corner and look for new ways to taint thought.
Pretender
You don’t know as much about history or archaeology as you like to pretend, do you? As a matter of fact, the inscriptions “kingdom of Judah” and “House of David” are mentioned repeatedly. The problem isn’t in finding those inscriptions(which have been plentiful), it’s been in proving that these individuals such as David actually were real!
The Bible like many very old books is a collection of stories. These stories will almost always contain some truth mixed in with myth and legend.
We know people lived in the area the Bible talks about for many years. So finding a wall, or a burial place or a garden DOES NOT prove the Bible is God inspired .
The Bible is a collection of stories, edited and changed over the years by different people and rulers. Just because some bits of it are based on fact, again, DOES NOT mean it is God inspired.
I for one think if some god wanted us to know his mind and his rules, this being could have spelled it out much better then the Bible, with a lot less tinkering over the years by one group or another.
A is A
the existence of this wall proves only that there was someone powerful enough in ca. 10th BC Jerusalem to order the erection of a city wall. unless an inscribed stone is found with the Hebrew equivalent of “King David had me built”, it adds nothing to the historicity of the David legend. there is more factual evidence for King Arthur than there is for King David.
Is the Illiad a true story?
Let’s assume for a moment that the archeologist’s claims are in fact correct. In what way does this make the Bible true? If we base the truth of a book upon the real places it describes, then the Illiad must also be true. In fact, the Harry Potter series describes London. Since we know that London exists, then the Harry Potter books must also be true. Those who believe that the Bible is somehow the inspired word of God and use descriptions of people and places as their evidence truly are deluding themselves or clearly lack the intellectual chops to understand what evidence is.
That’s right, Brian. I like to use the example of “Gulliver’s Travels” as well. That story is set in England, with English people of the era – does that mean Gulliver and the Lilliputians were real?
Ditto with all historical fiction, of which there is an abundance. The Bible is simply more of the same, this time from a particular group/ethnicity. Everyone needs to get over the megalomania that [i]the [/i]god of the cosmos wrote their little book of fabulous fairytales.
Getting a little nervous are we my fundie secularists?? LoL.
Yeah, right. The burden of proof is on the fundie believers in no evidence, not on us.
Unless, by “nervous” you mean that all the hatred spewed at non-believers causes us to wonder if the rabid believers are about to pull out another Inquisition, then you’d be right.
Anyone with a soul would be nervous about such a bloody horror.
For which, by the way, the omnipotent Lord of the universe is responsible.
The earth is a sphere
Actually Percy it is in Isaiah, not Genesis…
Isaiah 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
5000 years before the Bible round earth on stone
@ Christians B ESsssers. 5000 years before the unholy bible supposedly referenced spherical or round earth, the Sumerians and Babylonians inscribed on stone monuments, that stands to this day, not only images of a spherical round earth but mapped out in exact positions all of the 12 planets in our solar system. They even shown on stone relief’s planets that only in the 19 and 20 century discovered by… uuugh Modern Science Yuk and it was always thought of as myth. The 12 planet to this day will not be acknowledged by NASA and is referred to it recently as Planet X. So what you Christians are trying to impress humans with a text plagiarized from older knowledge and is without a doubt a forgery that supposed to be the word of GOD, don’t your god has anything new and improved to give to humanity other than new rape, genocide techniques and grotesque imagery of hell and brim stone.
@ Acharya S “……is because much of the Temple mount, for example, has not yet been excavated, and the Bible wasn’t written in a void……”
Of course there was a Jewish Temple standing in Jerusalem, that was sacked by the Romans under General Vespasian in 70AD, but that was built in relatively modern era, after the Babylonian captivities when Persian King Sirius freed the captives and sent them to build the Temple. At that time, Amen-Marduk was kicked out of Babylon by Ishtar forces loyal to her, defeated Marduk, found refuge in Iran (Medo-Persia). Remember the writing on the wall hand thing, written about in the Old Testament. It was a nice hologram gig, nothing more. Ishtar, is the main reason, Amen-Marduk is a fagot, hate women, and he made sure that under all his 3 contrived rules (religions), while he is hidden or unseen ( that is what Amen means in Egyptian) that women suffer, enslaved, abused and porno-graphed and are treated lesser than human. It is only when a converted Jewish Khazzar named Rockefeller needed to tax the other half of the American population that he personally launched the women freedom thing, but not for good reasons, just to send them to work and pay him the tax. Leave the kids for awful indoctrination by Fox and CNN brainwashing tools.
Back to Jerusalem and the Jewish Temple…. There exist an arch monument in Rome that commemorate Vespasian victory in Palestine against the Jews, even shows in carved stones all the temple object that were looted and carried away on the monument. So we do have several undisputable historic record of a Jewish Temple existence on the same spot the wall discovered and the Wailing Wall. No dispute on the fact that the land belongs to the Jews and no argument about Jerusalem being a Jewish city. After all, as I said to Iranian President Ahmadinejad, you will not give up Tehran to become an Arab city, why do you expect Jews to give Jerusalem up, its name Jerusalem, it is Jewish.
The Jews were the Hexos of Egypt. Here is the raw deal. Amen/Marduk needed to get a minority that can be loyal to him to rule Egypt, because Egyptian hated his fagot guts and arrogance, his mis-rule in Egypt were as bad as what this world today is like, which he rule now as well. So as he did now in America using the Khazars who lost their land and became wonderer, to rule America and use it for Imperial force to bring a One World Rule, which he think he is entitled to be thrown as King of Kings and Lord of Lords, he did the same with a Semitic tribe that have some city-State kingdom in Southern Arabia on the border with Yemen. It was wealthy and did have gold. Most of the Gold ended up In U.S. hands when the U.S. set up huge military base in Arabia (as it is doing now in Afghanistan). For some mysterious reason the city vanished for the naked eye, (not satellite instruments) and the tribes of it somehow ended up on Amen behest ruling the Egyptians for more than one hundred years. When they were kicked out by the rebelling Egyptians, again, on Amen behest fled Egypt and he delivered them to Canaan. Real Jews belong in Southern Arabia-Yemen area. Converted Jews, the Khazzars (which is 80% of living Jews today) belong in…Well, they should all be convicted as war criminals, because if you to study their history, that is all they are.
Bottom line from all of this that I thrown on you to do research, If there were a king David and Solomon and such riches as described in the fairytales, that could not be found in Canaan/Palestine (modern day Israel) that will perhaps be found in digs in Southern Arabia on the boarder with Yemen and Oman. The Temple mount in Jerusalem is not related to David or Solomon in anyway, it is related to the one built by returning Jews from Babylon. But to correlate the story of Yemeni Queen Sheba visit to Solomon, it is likely that a temple did exist in Southern Arabia for those Semitic tribes that are known today as Jews, who if you to leave the genocidal, murderous Khazzars out, send them to hell, will leave you with about 20% of living real Jews that are descendant from the Original Southern Arabian Jewish Kingdom.
David never existed.
One misconception always pops up as proof of Bible accuracy (or any and all so called holy books of ancient time), that it must be inspired by higher god, is HOW DID THEY KNOW THAT, THEY WERE CAVE MEN. No, unfortunately, savage cave men are living now here on earth. Ancient humans lived longer and mastered all sciences that even today were verified to be the accurate version, not the theories taught by Harvard for Centuries or the fairytales taught for millennia’s by past time charlatans. Not only that, They left a huge comp odium of data in ancient libraries, but Amen-Marduk always made sure he sends in one of his daemons, be it a Tatar from Mongolia or Greek Alexander the fagot (called great in the western history) to burn to ashes all those legendary libraries that contained the wealth of knowledge handed from past generations. He finally relied on his favorite evil cult of Christians at the Vatican to make sure none of whatever left will makes its way to the West, anyone got a chapter to be enlightened were duly burned on the stake. In Islam, Amen-Marduk even banned the making of pictures, why? Because although he managed to send his daemons to burns the books and destroy the libraries and wonder cities, they could not destroy all the monuments and carving inscribed on them, some are even hidden to this day. Therefore, mankind now only have these books that calls on Amen name every verse or so to be the only infallible truth. Or so he wished.
Fortunately, few brave men about…uuuh.. Not even Two hundred years ago, launched a new science called Archeology (digging up those inscriptions that survived Amen-Marduk cover-up campaign). Since then, Western and World Archeologists have dug up every square inch of Mesopotamia (Iraq), Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Arabia, Iran, Turkey, Ancient Greece and Rome, and not the least Israel/Palestine, where every square millimeter of sand have been dug up with tooth brushes and pencil picks. And….GUESS WHAT!!!
They dug up millions of tablets and inscriptions, beside the State sponsored monuments and inscriptions, treaties between nations and kingdoms, princes and queens, coins and emulates, murals, etc., the artifacts are so detailed, that we know what an average person 8000 BCE ate for dinner, or a merchant in Harran sold barley to Ugarit merchants. Yet in all those treaties, monuments and inscription unearthed, not ONE, not ONE SINGLE mention of a kingdom called Israel or Judah, not one mention of a King named Solomon and not one mention of a king named David. Not one gold coin with that legendary handsome David that Michael Angelo (another fagot of Amen) fantasized about his nudity was ever found. The answer is plain and simple, they never existed. It was all fraud made in Babylon on the order of its Alien, Extraterrestrial Annunaki ruler Amen-Marduk.
One is amazed how desperado Christians and Jews tries so hard to ignore all available scientific and historic evidences, and uses any discovery to prove their fraudulent books as accurate.
The new definition of fag
anonimouse,
I’m glad you picked up on that. I felt a little anti-gay overtones, but I was trying not to read too much into since South Park officially changed the definition of fag to mean loud and rude biker types. lol
There is a matriarchal movement that is very anti-gay believing that it was gay men who started the whole anti-female patriarchal movement. They are missing the true root cause. Desertification.
Men didn’t just wake up one day deciding to hate women. It was the suffering of drought and famine that turned them into violent women hating, life destroying monsters. It is no big secret that the side affects of starvation is life hating psychosis and to hate life you must hate the life givers.
Syrian Nationalist Party,
You are right on the mark in a lot of what say, but in order to understand the true breakdown of the male/female bonds you have to go further back, back to neolithic times to see how the middle east began to dry up and cause major upheaval and disfunction. These people lost their land to desertification and from then on invaded the peoples in the more lush areas and very violently.
It was those desert nomads with their all powerful warrior sun god who knew only harsh punishment from their unmercyful blazing god, that invaded and destroyed the prehistoric peaceful matriarchs.
But hey, they didn’t destroy them all!! :cheer: They’re are still small pockets throughout the world that matriarchal societies still exist and we are learning a LOT from them. http://www.second-congress-matriarchal-studies.com/
And one of the GREATEST things I have learned about them is that they do NOT have taboos against homosexuals. They do NOT hate gays. In fact most matriarchal societies see them as the “blessed others” who have the best of both worlds, being able to use both sides of their brains.
I really hope you take a moment to research it for yourself. The gays are a friend to the womens movement and I wouldn’t have it any other way.
Oh, and please do a google search about “what causes gaydom” they really are born that way and guess who is to blame? The mom! And it has everything to do with hormones during pregnancy and it is the midochondria(sp?brain fart) dna that decides who gets to be a breeder or not. They really did not choose to be gay cause they hate women.
Gays don’t choose to be gay, they are mentally tha
When an assault on gay typed up here, guess you object to the word “Fagot”. Well, by itself the word is not derogatory in anyway, it means fun and bombastic person, it is a term used by SNP to dishonor Amen-Marduk whose incredibly egotistic character demands to always recite his name with several aphanites’ of magnifications, we belittle his ass and show disrespect using Fagot, looser and deceiver of man.
Let’s see, how best to explain this, I can only get erection on blonds, tried gorgeous dark heads and failed. It is all mental. Likewise, one can understand that gay person do not choose to be gay, they are mentally, not physically, programmed that way. It is my understanding that the human body is mechanical in nature, sort of like a brand new computer. It is the software that brings it alive and displays its characters. It is the software in the brain that defines the person as well. Basically, it never been tried (or it could have in Dulce, New Mexico underground lab), it may be possible to completely cut the head off any creature, including humans, ( the snake parable) and connect it to a mechanical robot machine that substitute all the functions the body performed. You can also delete part of the program, say of male brain and copy over it a female version. That extremely said, it is possible using Blue Tooth of sort to transmit or override the software in the brain. That is what is happening in gays mind. Of course there are other psychological drives, say, abusive mother, repeated disappointment with females etc. So yes, Amen is our arch-enemy and uses the word fagot to be rude but that it does not mean in my comments there is any gay bashing. Additionally, lesbians, not the dyke types are very sensual to many males. Still, will keep calling that looser who caused all this desertification’s in the Middle East by repeated wars a fagot.
Please read Sitchin (the War of Gods and Men) for info. The middle East were in fact lush green paradise heaven, a garden of Eden, but Amen-Marduk, is the prime reason why it is now desolate. He is now the one driving, by his arrogance, and in desperate attempt to be ruling a One World Government by 2012 mankind and earth to annihilation. Nibiru, the 12th planet arrival is approaching and he plan, he hopes by then, that he will wage war in heaven (space war in the vicinity of earth) on Nibiru to gain the seat of power that he claims he deserves and not Enlil and his kids who are now ruling that planet. Mankind and earth will pay a heavy price for his last failure and humans will be punished severely for aiding him in that failed endeavor. Read the book of Revelation about the 4 angels and the 4 horsemen and what they will do to earth after the war in heavens waged by Amen and his human helpers fails. Two third of the planet will be wiped out and only 144,000 Jews will be saved, transported to another planet, the idiots helping him, the Khazzars are preparing a shelter for themselves to hide and leave the idiotic humans suffer a horrific life afterward. YouTube search for Underground cities and Phil Schneider. Anyone that tells you Phil is fraud, ask yourself, why would the United States, under this severe economic downturn, spend 1 quarter of GDP, in Black budget, on keeping the underground cities under construction at feverish speed. They know something you don’t. Why all those laws passed in the past 3 years giving government the power to control 100% of all farms, land and anything relating to the production and transfer, storage of all food and agriculture farms in America, including all private companies and land. What do they know that you don’t. Dropped a bunch of tidy bits and links for you, go research it, don’t just sit on what is written here.
Thanks for clearing that up…
Now I have to go brush up on my mythology and dates. It has been years since I read about Marduk. And living in the south I have learned to over simplify everything. If you start talking about dates and all the other gods people aroung here get confused. So, I put everything in hick lay terms. lol
The jews(or whoever/whatever they were called at that time) lost their land to desertification and from then on have been migrating and invading and forcing their mean unmercyful sun god in/on their neighbors. Much like what the muslems are doing now. History just keeps repeating itself in a never ending spiral of self destruction. Patriarchal religions are always preparing for war and spending more money than any of us can fathom on their death machines and secret passages. The ancient middle east is filled with secret passages.. always preparing for the end time and total destruction of the world. Self forfilled prophacy. As long as women continue to coddle their behavior and accept their psychotic religions there will be no change. The answer to stopping all this madness is…women. When women(especially women in “free” countries) start pulling their heads out of their asses and realize they do have ALL the power to change things, only then we will see a peaceful society. It is women who bring children into this world and we are the biggest influence in our childrens lives. Everything children learn in their first 5 years of life is usually taught to them by their mothers, and has the biggest impact in their lives, even when the fathers are around. Women need to stop raising their children on patriarchal principles and get back to raising them instinctually on female principles, where nurturing, cooperation and life positive attitudes are the norm…EVEN OUR BOYS. Especially our boys! I leave it here with a quote from Gloria Steinem…”If only we had the courage to raise our boys like our girls.”
Not sure what to make about the Alliens and the war of the worlds.
I’m sure earth isn’t the only life substaining planent, and nor do I think we are the only universe, but war with alliens is a little hard to wrap my head around. To me it just sounds too much like patriarchal hyperboil. Men(not all men) are always trying to prove they are more important and more needed than women and war is just a tool for them to say… see how much more important we are? If we didn’t do all this warring you’d never be able to raise your children freely…blah blah. yuck!
Anyway, sorry about hijacking the thread.
Did they ever find any names inscribed on these walls? I’m dying to know, was it king David or Solomen or was it a pagan fortification wall to keep the crazy desert nomads out?
Acharya,
My memory might be off, but istn’t there a lot of fighting over whether Jerusalem really belongs to the Jews or not?
Vedas
Sorry but you missed a point in there. Krshna was never accepted as an mythological personality. The Greeks of the past accept Krishna as the facto personality as well the Indian intelligentsia up to about the English take over. Since the Vedas where translated by basically Christian missionaries or under strong Christian slant under the overpaid (why?) Mr. Max Muller, it gave no reference to the commentaries of the previous authorities going back millennias. Krshna’s Bhagavad-Gita, under proper commentary as it is, is as compelling and instructive as was 5,108 years ago when was actually spoken on the Battlefield of Kurukshetra.
And by the way there are innumerable descriptions in the Vedas of planets, including the earth, as “lokas” which means “round islands”.
science?
You Bible bashers are all so “sciency” and proof directed… do you have any idea about the fact that all our chemistry, biology and physics is based on assumptions and correlations? we people can only play scientists…. we don’t know anything for fact… and as to how those three main “sciences” are not really sciences – chemistry fails to understand jack about electrons, physicscan’t explain energy at 0K…and bio…well, bio builds on the other two and hopes the prostitute of sciences(statistisc) backs it up… anyone who sees Bible as proof is not any different from a “scientist” who thinks s/he “knows”…. btw, being a bichemist/molecular biologist i hate to realize that I only “know” too….
bokertov……I would like to point out that a circle is not a sphere !The Torah points out that the earth is flat with a circle or disk like terra and semi sphere heaven …with holes in it to let the rain through ! This we now know to be a little inaccurate; so we accept that people back then interpreted God’s word as best they could understand !Our scribes were only human . I still have a headache from my last head banging session in Jerusalem and can vouch for the strength of the stones in the wall ! They could easily last 3000 years ! shalom .