What does the New Testament say about women?

“Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.”
Colossians 3:18

With Christian women entering into the political arena more frequently, it is necessary to take a look at exactly what Christianity teaches about women. We are reminded, of course, of Republican presidential candidate Michele Bachmann’s remark about “submitting to her husband,” which means just that: Submission, not “respect” or any other sophistic excuse. Indeed, the same Greek word for “submissive” found in Colossians 3:18 – ὑποτάσσω or “hypotasso” – appears also at Titus 2:9, in Paul’s exhortation for slaves to be submissive to their masters.

This Greek word hypotasso means (Strong’s G5293):

1) to arrange under, to subordinate
2) to subject, put in subjection
3) to subject one’s self, obey
4) to submit to one’s control
5) to yield to one’s admonition or advice
6) to obey, be subject

The fact remains that the male-dominant patriarchal religions, such as Judaism, Christianity and Islam, require women to be in an inferior position.

Quotes from the New Testament about women

“It is well for a man not to touch a woman. But because of the temptation to immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband.” 1 Corinthians 7:1-2

“But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of every woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God…. any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled dishonors her head …For if a woman will not veil herself, then she should cut off her hair …For a man ought not to cover his head; since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. (For man was not made from woman, but woman from man. Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.)” 1 Corinthians 11:2-10

“Wives, be submissive to your husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. As the church is subject to Christ, so let wives also be subject in everything to their husbands.” Ephesians 5:21-24

“…the women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.” 1 Corinthians 14:34-35

“Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or have authority over men; she is to keep silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet woman will be saved through bearing children, if she continues in faith and love and holiness, with modesty.” 1 Timothy 2:11-15

“Wives, be subject to your husband, as is fitting in the Lord. Husbands, love your wives, and do not be harsh with them. Children, obey your parents in everything, for this pleases the Lord. Fathers, do not provoke your children, lest they become discouraged. Slaves, obey in everything those who are your earthly masters, not with eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but in singleness of heart, fearing the Lord.” Colossians 3:18-22

“….and so train the young women to love their husbands and children, to be sensible, chaste, domestic, kind, and submissive to their husbands, that the word of God may not be discredited…. Bid slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in every respect…” Titus 2:4-9

“No one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who had been redeemed from the earth. It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are chaste…” Revelation 14:3-4

Summary of New Testament Quotes about women

It is good for a man not to touch a woman, so that he is not tempted to “immorality” and does not “defile” himself. Men are the “heads” of their wives and the “glory of God,” whereas the woman is merely the “glory of man.” Man was not created from woman, but woman from man. Women must be submissive in everything and subject to their husbands, who, again, are their “heads.” Women should not speak in church but must remain subordinate and learn in submissiveness. No woman can teach or have authority over men. Girls and women must be “trained” to love and to be sensible, chaste, domestic and submissive to their husbands.

Further Reading

New Testament Quotes about Women, Poverty, Peace and Slavery
The hidden history of religion

84 Comments

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  1. Thanks for posting this blog, Acharya. It’s important to point out what’s really going on here so that people may understand and avoid being fooled.
    [quote]“…Of course, Michele Bachmann’s response that by “[i]submissive[/i]” she meant “[i]respect[/i]” is obviously the result of political coaching. To submit or to be submissive has absolutely nothing to do with respect. Muslims claim that the word “muslim” means: “[i]one who submits[/i]” or “[i]one who surrenders[/i]” – to Islam or Allah. The definition of respect makes no mention of “submit” nor does the definition of submit or submissive mention “respect.”

    - Ex-Evangelical Denounces Michele Bachmann ([url]http://freethoughtnation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3881[/url])[/quote]

  2. Self-honesty, Self-forgiveness and Equality for Al
    This is pure abuse and slavery to the mind of consciousness, the con jobs of all cons. Women – Stand up and breathe, let’s bring about a world where all live in dignity as all as one as Equal.

  3. comment
    Whichever major religion you may cite, the male is in the superior. Whats wrong with that? You cant argue with Gods order… well you can, but ultimately His will be manifest on the Earth. If a woman occupies high office – watchout!

    1. “No man knows that he is a fool, unless he is marr
      IMO, the Xtian bible is the worst book ever assembled, but I have yet to read the Koran, which might knock it down to No. 2. These two books have caused more deaths, pain and suffering than all other books combined. Time to destroy them all, except a few for the historical record, in order to show how ignorant and stupid the bulk of the human race once was. :P

      1. The Bible has caused more deaths, etc., etc., ad b
        I wish I could buy into your argument, but as a rationalist I can’t ignore facts and factually, you’re wrong.

        Without going into the history of organized atheism, in modern times it has caused more deaths, pain and suffering than any other philosophical system ever devised. Karl Marx’s “Das Kapital” is the basis for modern Communism and is thus responsible, as an accessory, to the deaths of 20,000,000 Russians under Stalin, 1,000,000 under the rule of Pol Pot, and a conservatively estimated 50,000,000 under Mao in China. Compared to these agile atheists, Christians even at their Crusading, witch-burning worst weren’t even rank amateurs.

        You also have to wonder how much “death, pain and suffering” Christians like Mother Teresa and Father Damien caused.

        1. Conquering of the America’s
          You forgot the Christian conquering of America’s. 50-100 million people died. Christians are no ametuers to mass geoncide in the name of christ their lord.

      2. The Koran is the real word of god, you should read it some time and compare ,there is no comparation between both of them! do not listen to the media see for yourself why Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world.

        1. Sheer nonsense. The question is, have you actually read the Koran, because you seem to know nothing about it and are just parroting falsehoods.

          Here are verses from the Koran that have been followed as ETERNAL EDICTS by millions of devout Muslims over the past 1,400 years.

          UNBELIEVERS

          “This Book is not to be doubted…. As for the unbelievers, it is the same whether or not you forewarn them; they will not have faith. God has set a seal upon their hearts and ears; their sight is dimmed and grievous punishment awaits them.” Quran 2:1/2:6-2:10

          “God’s curse be upon the infidels! Evil is that for which they have bartered away their souls. To deny God’s own revelation, grudging that He should reveal His bounty to whom He chooses from among His servants! They have incurred God’s most inexorable wrath. An ignominious punishment awaits the unbelievers.” Quran 2:89-2:90

          “Lord…Give us victory over the unbelievers.” Quran 2:286

          “Lord…give us victory over the unbelievers.” Quran 3:148

          “I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, strike off the very tips of their fingers.” Quran 8:12

          “Let not the unbelievers think they will ever get away. They have not the power so to do. Muster against them all the men and cavalry at your command, so that you may strike terror into the enemy of Allah and your enemy…” Quran 8:59

          “When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them.” Quran 9:5

          “Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate.” Quran 9:73

          “Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them. Know that God is with the righteous.” Quran 9:123

          “Believers, take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another…” Quran 5:51

          “He that chooses a religion over Islam, it will not be accepted from him and in the world to come he will be one of the lost.” Quran 3:85

          “Let not believers make friends with infidels in preference to the faithful – he that does this has nothing to hope for from Good – except in self-defense. God admonishes you to fear Him: for to God shall all return.” Quran 3:28

          “Garments of fire have been prepared for the unbelievers. Scalding water shall be poured upon their heads, melting their skins and that which is in their bellies. They shall be lashed with rods of iron.

          “Whenever, in their anguish, they try to escape from Hell, back they shall be dragged, and will be told: ‘Taste the torment of the Conflagration!'” Quran 22:19-20

          “Muhammad is God’s apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another.” Quran 48:29

          “Those that deny Our revelations We will burn in fire. No sooner will their skins be consumed than We shall give them other skins, so that they may truly taste the scourge. God is mighty and wise.” Quran 4:56

          “Let not the unbelievers think that they will ever get away. They have not the power to do so. Muster against them all the men and cavalry at your command, so that you may strike terror into the enemy of God and your enemy…” Quran 8:59-60

          “Believers, know that the idolaters [non-Muslims] are unclean. Let them not approach the Sacred Mosque after this year is ended.” Quran 9:28

          “The unbelievers among the People of the Book [Bible] and the pagans shall burn for ever in the fire of Hell. They are the vilest of all creatures.” Quran 98:6

          WOMEN

          “They ask you about menstruation. Say: ‘It is an indisposition. Keep aloof from women during their menstrual periods and do not approach them until they are clean again; when they are clean, have intercourse with them whence God enjoined you….'” Quran 2:222

          “Women are your fields: go, then, into your fields whence you please.” Quran 2:223

          “Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and forsake them in beds apart, and beat them.” Quran 4:34

          “A male shall inherit twice as much as a female.” Quran 4:11

          “Call in two male witnesses from among you, but if two men cannot be found, then one man and two women whom you judge fit to act as witnesses…” Quran 2:282

          “[Forbidden to you are] married women, except those whom you own as slaves.” Quran 4:24

          SUMMARY OF KORANIC QUOTES REGARDING WOMEN

          Menstruating women are unclean, and men must stay away from them. Women are men’s “fields,” and men can have sex with them whenever they want. Men are superior to women and have authority over them, while women must obey men or risk being beaten. A woman is worth one-half of a man. Muslim men can own sex slaves.

          KORANIC REWARDS IN PARADISE

          “The righteous shall return to a blessed retreat: the gardens of Eden, whose gates shall open wide to receive them. Reclining there with bashful virgins for companions, they will call for abundant fruit and drink.” Quran 38:51-2

          “God has purchased from the faithful their lives and worldly goods, and in return has promised them the Garden. They will fight for the cause of God, they will slay, and be slain. Such is the true promise which He has made them in the Torah, the Gospel and the Koran….” Quran 9:111

          “As for the righteous, they shall be lodged in peace together amid gardens and fountains, arrayed in rick silks and fine brocade. Even thus; and We shall wed them to dark-eyed houris.” Quran 44:51-54

          “On that day [the unbelievers] shall be sternly thrown into the fire of Hell . . . But in fair gardens the righteous shall dwell in bliss, rejoicing in what their Lord will give them. Their Lord will shield them from the scourge of Hell. He will say: Eat and drink to your hearts content. This is the reward of your labours.

          “They shall recline on couches ranged in rows. To dark-eyed houris [virgin girls] We shall wed them. . . . Fruit We shall give them, and such meats as they desire. They will pass from hand to hand a cup inspiring no idle talk, no sinful urge; and there shall wait on them young boys of their own, as fair as virgin pearls.” Quran 52:13-24

          “Reclining there upon soft couches, they shall feel neither the scorching heat nor the biting cold. Trees will spread their shade around them, and fruits will hang in clusters over them.

          “They shall be served with silver dishes, and beakers as large as goblets; silver goblets which they themselves shall measure: and cups brim-full with ginger-flavoured water from a fount called Salsabil. They shall be attended by boys graced with eternal youth, who to the beholders eyes will seem like sprinkled pearls. When you gave upon that scene, you will behold a kingdom blissful and glorious.” Quran 76:9-20

          Quotes from the Koran (w/the Arabic side by side)

        2. God is not a liar & doesn’t condone lies. “Allah” does. “Allah” & the God of the Bible are NOT the same. “Allah” encourages lying. God hates lying & the Bible says that Satan is the “father of lies”.

  4. good post
    It’s very important that people continue to read the truth:
    that women are not men and that they need male leadership.

    It is unfortunate that this ancient wisdom is being ignored these days with the despicable communist fabrication of ‘feminism’.

    It’s even worse that most males buy this crap.

    But the fact remains: women ‘thinking’ for themselves usually comes to very little good.

    Of course this post was meant to show the stupidity of christianity, assuming we’re all feminists.

    But those with ears to hear will get the message.

  5. Mr
    If any of these Fundie GOP or “Tea Party” Christians win the White House, all I can say as an Atheist “God” save the United CHRISTIAN States of America. It is already badly affected by the God Virus.

    1. You mention a God Virus, It brings a smile to my f
      You mention a God Virus, It brings a smile to my face. If you are referring to the Christan faith, I can excuse your ignorance. It is doubtful that you actually know what Jesus taught. The virus that is crippling America is not the ‘God Virus’, it is the ‘Greed Virus’
      If you would study the Bible as a document written in a historical time where women had to be protected from harm, they were definiely weaker that men, physically and were not free to move about as freely as our women today. Childbirth and childcare is safer, the culture accepts women as equal to men and it is proven that woman often far outshines her male conterpaarts. As recently as 1950’s women were not respected by the community if she was seen unescorted. The 1960s changed all of that and the work continues to be observed all over the earth where women lead politcally, socially, and in some cases physically. Times have changed in every sphere of social norms. I venture to point out that God holds a woman equal or at times superior to men. Get a good study Bible and possibly a commentary, and study. You are in for a surprise. ELle

      1. Read the bible quotes above
        And then the rest of the Bible.

        “As recently as 1950’s women were not respected by the community if she was seen unescorted.”

        Because of the bible.

      2. Hmm
        Clearly you have not spent enough time studying your bible either. In fact I am pretty sure you are in violation of several biblical simply by posting your opinion in this forum.

      3. Bible reading
        I used to be a christian. The reason I left… I read the bible. Cover to cover many times. the first time I was 7. The second time I was 12. The last time I was 15. I left the faith a few years after that. Reason?

        There are no Christians on earth at this time, or at least so few as to be a joke.

        Peter made clear that women were good people, but should not be in positions of authority / leadership. Jesus… didnt give a sh*t.

        God (old testament) told women to know their role! Make babies and obey their husbands. Was god at the 1960s bra burnings? Did he come down from the mountain and give women a stone tablet saying “thou need not be oppressed and obedient”? No. Women worked in the factories in WWI & II, got a taste for it, and didn’t want to look back. WOMEN made the choice. WOMEN stood up. WOMEN fought for their rights. Why give that victory up to some sky-DADDY?

        If you think the christian god thinks well of women, I suggest you re-read that ol’ book. Peter (the misogynist) was more in line with the old Jewish teachings than that hippy Jew named Jesus.

        Also, Jesus never ONCE said that women could teach. In fact, it was against the old laws. And old JC made clear that “I am not here to abolish the law, but to fulfill it”. Just saying, there is a reason most feminists are NOT christians! Oh, one more thing, while I was a christian I went to Promise Keepers. You know, the group that teaches men how to be good husbands? Well… they teach some things that would curl your deluded toes!

        In reality females are not superior to males, not in the bible not in the real world. Shocked a liberal would say that? Then you are not a feminist. I feel women are EQUAL to males, and males to females. When I was younger and someone complimented a female friend of mine for doing something normally associated with males I was confused at all the fuss. I have never seen a gender difference. The only difference is biological, everything else is cultural / imaginary.

        1. Oh, you’re quite amusing! There are no Christians at this time? Obviously you live under a rock! Your statements are contradictory and you most likely have not read it at all, except maybe what other uneducated atheists tell you.

  6. Paul–not the Gospels
    Acharya’s complaints about the New Testament treatment of women are really Acharya’s complaints about Paul’s doctrines found in his and others Letters, not about how women are treated in the Gospels. Many Christians have trouble with Paul and only Bible inerrant types actually follow Paul’s advice re women, not the majority by any means of registered Christians.

    Why not balance the picture with the way Jesus treated women in the Gospels?

    1. Where are “my” complaints? All I have done here is list scriptures referring to women from the New Testament and the meaning of the pertinent Greek word.

      In the meantime, that’s a nice excuse. However, millions of devout Christians over the centuries have believed that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God, and they have persecuted, abused, tortured and murdered many thousands of women, as well enslaved them under the sexist patriarchy, via these very scriptures. Hence, they have not been particularly interested in your opinion as to whether or not Christ or Christianity really meant all this sexism. Perhaps you need to take your conscience-assuaging excuses to all these individuals – that would be helpful.

      Moreover, if Jesus is the omnipotent Lord of the universe in charge of everything, then he should have set the record straight long ago and prevented all the heinous woman abuse at the hands of his devotees.

      If he is not the omnipotent god of the cosmos, whoop de doo – there have been far more interesting philosophers on Earth.

      In any event, Christians continued to abuse women through these sexist and misogynistic verses – just take a look around at the comments here!

      1. At the end of the day when you have two people and they are deciding something as a couple whats the tie breaker supposed to be….. if we go with what the women wants well is not that then to mirror what your saying oppressive to men?

        Also, that same bible speaks of husband love your wives (even as Christ loved the Church..be willing to die and sacrifice for her)…
        so its not something to take out of context

        MEANING THIS:::

        the devotion and sacrificial love to the wife goes hand in hand with the submission to the husband by the wife and their joint submission to Christ.

        i.e. no your not supposed to submit to just anything your husband says..i.e. if he tells you go kill your mother or something like that.what do you think he meant by submit to your husband…in what matter/way….to me it means sometimes that the some issue comes up and their has to be a deciding factor when there are two opposing options that can not be compromised for…so when you have two people a tie does not work…somebody has to defer to someone else.

      2. I agree with you
        Re: Women in the New Testament. Acharya, I as you, think that all the verses are misogynistic. All my life; way before I knew the word and its meaning, I’ve been fighting the ‘superiority’ of the male myth. That, since childhood; coupled with my doubts and later my views on religion, has caused me countless problems and even serious physical harm and consequences. Possibly, deep down, even two marriages down the drain LOL. [size=medium]Worth every second of my self respect![/size]

      3. So, you’re saying that ONLY Christians have abused and killed women? That’s very ignoran and misusing informing. What about atheists? What about other religions?

        1. If you’re talking to me, I have never said such a thing, so your comment represents a strawman, and I have no idea why you would make such remarks, which reveal that you do not know me or my work at all.

          I write about the misogyny of Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism and other religions, and we are also well aware of sexism within the nonbelieving community, as I personally have been subjected to it for some two decades online.

  7. new testament
    Please understand that most of the so-called New Testament was the invention of a Jew named Paul/Saul of Tarsus who never met, saw, followed Jesus. He invented “Christianity.”

  8. because
    stop getting hung up on every little “human adjustment” written about jesus.
    the core message of jesus is love others and do right by them. a universal law.

  9. THIS WOMAN NEEDS TO BE SENT TO A MADHOUSE REAL QUI
    HAHAHAHA, THIS WOMAN IS A REAL JOKE, GO HOME AND WASH DISHES AND CLEAN THE FLOORS IF YOU ARE NOT THAT STUPID TO DO THAT TOO.

  10. Surely the authority for what constitutes Christianity is Christ, not interpreters of Christ? The “Christian” churches all censor Him and the critics churlishly attack the pronouncements of his acolytes as constituting His message.

  11. Pisits Sophia
    I think you mean what modern Christianity teaches about women. In the first 400 years of the church women did take a roll in teach/learn and learn/teach. You can not have one with out the other for a teacher learns from teaching while a learner teaches while learning.

    Women played a vital roll in the early church and even the entity now known as Jesus Christ let women speak.

    Sure you will not find that in the Bible of today you would have to go to the Gnostic texts to find that. Yet so many refuse to read them because they are classified as heretical.

    Yet a prudent man or woman would read them.

  12. Religions or societies of Patriarchs.
    Religions or societies of Patriarchs.

    They made a male God

    In ancient times they had the idea that the man was stronger, wiser.

    This blog is about the old Testament, but is time for us and Intellectual people as Acharya to stop, al least to open the awareness of and actual disease of the infamous Catholics

    : God, Bishops, ArchBishops , Angels , Archangels (Michael, Rafael, Gabriel and Uriel), Deacon, Acolyte, Cardinal, Priest, Prophets, Pope, Devil, Apostles, Cherub, friar. The ridicule holy trinity ( 2 males and 1 animal), etc… Male, male male,….

    The woman is to be blamed for the original sin, to be used as a sex slave servant hidden in monasteries for the priest , popes, bishops. The women there had to be totally silent, even punish for obey the sex desire and act of the superior males.

    While the male walked away innocent , in confidence that if there is a child born , they will find a way to cease the product of the evil woman .

    The Nuns lived in the shadows , inside thick walls, that are silent, they could not see to the eye another person, always looked down. Always in penitence of being a woman serving god as a sex whore.

    The woman is to be used as a servant. For domestic issues.

    The woman are to be considered witches, and hunt them, burn them in fire. (of course you abuse them first)

    As we speak the Catholic church spend Millions of Dollars in lawyers to settle sex abuse.

    Is still happening.

    But back to basics….

    In Nature who is gives birth?

    Only Women?

    Only one sex?

    In Nature many species change sex from Male to female incase that the survival of them are in danger.
    Also the male seahorses give birth.

    The nature is wiser than the Old Testament

  13. Jesus
    These are not what Jesus said other apostles. What about the other books in the Bible that where left out. If there is injustice speak out.

  14. truth is stranger than fiction…
    Yahweh has a hierarchy … if women are ruling over men ~ it’s a punishment not a blessing…

    the libtard commies continue to fool Yahweh’s people ….

    Get back to Yahweh’s laws :-)

  15. “St” Paul is the women-hater in the New Testament.
    But he is a fraud. Jesus said He would found his ekklesia (‘called-out ones’) on Peter. The fake ‘churchianity’ of today says that Jesus was wrong – the ‘church’ was founded by Paul. Who do we believe – Jesus or the false church of today?
    Jesus: “Beware of the leaven (teaching) of the Pharisees and Sadducees..” vs Paul’s claim “I am a Pharisee, a son (offspring) of Pharisees” (Acts23:6) [ Note present tense ]. Acts 9 says Paul fell, and his companions stood. Acts 27 says they all fell. Acts 9 says the companions heard the voice, but Acts 22 says they didn’t hear the voice.

  16. Literal
    Its not always good to take a literal interpretation of the bible, many of the times when it speaks of male female husband wife its speaking in a spiritual sense as in spirit and matter, and matter is to take on the form that spirit wills not the other way around.

    After saying that the Bible is NOT the infallible word of God and the bible will tell you this.

  17. Seriously ..I’m Going To Convert
    That does it! I’m converting to Christianity!

    As a young man I’ve been taught the exact opposite my whole life. That I’m inferior to women, that I’m supposed to defer to women and that Christianity is bad.

    Well, now I know the truth. Sign me up!

  18. What I want to know is, if Bach-no-mann is suppose to be submissive to her husband, why is she trying to run for president? Think about it. It’s just not Biblical and if she was submissive to him, then who is really president?

    1. “why is she trying to run for president?”

      Well, it’s been pretty well documented in the news that she admits that her husband TOLD HER to run for President. She also admits that she went to tax school because her husband told her to. So, she does whatever he tells her to. If he told her to jump her reply would be “how high?”

  19. Well we’ve all seen what man has done to this world. they have been ruling all this time. We also know that the bible is only a fraction of the old wrightings that exist or existed. We also know that some things have been changed, left out, or added into the bible. We also know that science today has proven that we could not have come just from one man or one women in the beginning. Note that in Genesis man and women were created on the sixth day out of the dust of the earth. Adam and Eve were created on the Eight day, Adam from dust and Eve from his rib (the first creation of religion mabey? and also the first story of the fall of man, hummmm.)
    Men today act like children, even in their old age. And I’m sure when they read something like this: they skip the part to be good to and love their wives. Why would a loving God create women to be used and abused? Men need us to procreate or humans on earth would be dead already. Men have no choice but to submit to us women. It’s obvious! They can’t live without us.

  20. Answering the misinterpretations of scriptures abo
    1 Corinthians 11:2-10 is where Paul advising women to wear a hair covering for which was the right thing to do for the time that he wrote it but would not apply today, as shown for example when he also often wrote to congregations saying to give a kiss to all the “holy ones” which also for the time was what was then appropriate. Today in many lands kissing a person’s marriage mate could be considered scandalous and so Christians generally at most just offer a handshake.

    At Ephesians 5:21-24, Colossians 3:18-22 etc where Paul says for women to submit to husbands “as to the Lord” he notes that they are to be subject in things “as the church is subject to Christ.” Therefore if a man does not act in the sort of loving way that the Lord (Jesus Christ) treated people but instead evilly then she does not have to “submit” to abuse.

    At 1 Timothy 11:15 and 1 Corinthians 14:34, 35 Paul says for women to learn in silence, not teach or have authority over men, something that obviously applies to any men who might be noisy or pushy, not just women. In Paul’s time Christianity was pioneering in having men and women together socially and the excited women were naturally wanting to talk, so he was saying for them to instead stay quiet so as to learn and let others do the same while at a church meeting. Paul clearly also says he wanted older women to be “teachers of what is good,” (Titus 2:3) Prisca/Priscilla and her husband both taught Apollos more correctly about God. (Ac 18:26)

    Revelation 14:3, 4 says 144,000, possibly of or part of the “great crowd” that Revelation 19:1 says is in heaven hadn’t “defiled” themselves with women but Revelation is a very symbolic book so the “women” that the men didn’t defile themselves with are likely also symbolic. The women for Christians to not be defiled by are most likely indicated at Revelation 18:4, which tells Christians to get out of Babylon the Great, as well as Revelation 17 5 which says Babylon the Great is a “mother of harlots,” in other words has daughters. Revelation 17:6 says the woman was drunk with blood of the saints bearing witness to Jesus, and dealing with any woman-like group harming such persons grieves God’s Holy Spirit. Not sexual but spiritual defilement is the concern.

  21. Eph 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

    The verse PROCEEDING

    Eph 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

    Submission on BOTH sides morons.

    A TEXT without a CONTEXT is a PRETEXT!

  22. [quote]JohnZ: “I do have a problem with the feminist movement which appears to be so anti male it sometimes makes me ill.”[/quote]
    Then you don’t really know anything about the feminist movement at all and are simply jumping to false assumptions, possibly based on your own biases.
    [quote]Does being pro-feminist mean that you are anti-male? ([url]http://www.xyonline.net/content/frequently-asked-questions-about-pro-feminist-men-and-pro-feminist-mens-politics#Antimale[/url])

    “No. We are anti-sexist, we are anti-patriarchal, but we are not anti-male. Pro-feminist men are hopeful about both men’s and women’s futures. We believe that men, like women, are perfectly capable of being loving, nurturing and non-oppressive human beings. We reject the idea that men are somehow intrinsically bad, oppressive or sexist. We believe that men can change and we support every man’s efforts at positive change. We recognise the need to build close relations and supportive alliances among men, as part of the process of change.

    We assume that individual men are not responsible for, and can’t be blamed for, social structures and values such as the social construction of masculinity or the history of women’s oppression. At the same time, individual men are responsible for their oppressive behaviour (such as violence) and can and should choose to change it…..”[/quote]
    Do a little research before assuming the worst next time.

    The Origins & Causes of Misogyny ([url]http://www.feministezine.com/feminist/malefeminism/The-Origins-Causes-of-Misogyny.html[/url])

  23. To till.
    What the word of god says and mans interpretation of it are two different things. Man has written it, ruled it, used it and played with it, and he still does not know how or why Eve got out of the garden to be with him. The word of god does not say Adam and Eve were evicted, its mans interpretation of that word which has them being evicted together. Its the head of a snake that wove its way through all the books.

  24. The entire religion of xtianity is a total fraud as is judaism and islam.
    Xtianity was the creation of a Roman general, Constnatine who conferred the first ecclesiastical forum. AS this took place in Greece, the first bible was of course written in Greek and a great deal of the Greek attitude was also written into the so called bible. The myth of creation and Adam and Eve is just that: a myth. The idea of the jews is nothing more than myth. The Ten Commandments are taken entirely from other known laws and dictates…nothing original there.
    As I seem to recollect, Jesus never meant for an organized church. It is men, who sought power,and wealth who did this. The same men who ruthlessly destroyed any and all competition to this New world Order religion.
    It continues to this day. Just take a look at what is happening in the middle east and don’t tell me religion has nothing to do with it.
    So I pay no attention to this type of indoctrination and yet I do have a problem with the feminist movement which appears to be so anti male it sometimes makes me ill.

  25. Okay lets see ladies..

    Now you can cuss like a man, drink like a man, smoke like a man, fornicate like a man, be an ass like a man. Wow, you have come a long way have you not? Pride has always been a man’s downfall, but now we are equal. A shame really.

  26. Arrogant Ignorance
    I’m chuckling to myself as I read the insinuation in this note. I used to think the same way – very strongly, in fact. In retrospect, I was very much ignorant and quite arrogant about it. Once I actually did the research of fact (not people’s opinions, but facts) behind the hype, I realized I was no where near educated in what these verses really meant. I was “arrogantly ignorant” – like the condescending know-it-all stating “In 1522, Columbo sailed the Ocean Blue” with an “I know better than you” smirk on my face.

    Keep in mind that we are not the first generation to live, learn, have thoughts and opinions, and actually think we’re somehow fundamentally different than we’ve ever been. People have actually been around for thousands of years, thinking this through, noticing differences, seeing what works and doesn’t work. The conclusion? Men are men … women are women. I know – crazy talk. It says nowhere in the New Testament that men are superior to women. In fact it says they are equal, each with their own roles, strengths, weaknesses. Words like respect and submit are broad terms you have taken out of context here. Think about it. Do you not submit to your wife and love her even when she’s being unlovable? The popular term for this is “unconditional love”. But that’s okay. What gets everyone in an uproar is that horrible word “respect” (sarcasm intended here). A man needs respect like a woman needs love. Ask any man if he’d rather (a) be left alone with no one to love in the world or (b) be surrounded by people who had absolutely no respect for him. I’m sure there are some outliers, but all-in-all, men will choose (a) by a landslide. That’s how important it is to us. And not respecting a man (whether you’re a woman or another man) is equal to not showing love to a woman. You can learn a whole bunch more on this subject in Emerson Eggrich’s “Love and Respect” – I HIGHLY recommend it for any married or to-be-married couple. Explains a lot I never knew about the mysterious opposite sex.

    Now, none of this is to say a woman couldn’t do a man’s job. It’s been proven quite well that a woman can and has done a man’s job in corporate America, politics, etc. – in many cases better. Equally, a man can and has done a traditional “woman’s job” (say, a Mr Mom). That is not what the New Testament is saying. It’s pointing out fundamental truisms about men and women – how we’re chemically made up and how we best work as partners.

    If you look at the character Jesus, you will notice that, while he was a man, he also had all the qualities and strengths that come more naturally to a woman – compassion, selflessness, nurturing, openness, understanding, communication through to resolution, etc.. The ultimate purpose of marriage for a Christian, then, is to become one in flesh so they – together – can be more like Christ. Man by himself can’t. Woman by herself can’t.

    So, here is my recommendation – do the research, listening to both sides (I’d recommend Lee Stroebel’s “The Case for Faith” and “The Case for Jesus”, which he began as an Athiest to debunk this ridiculous Christianity thing), then consider rewriting the above with all the information. Maybe you’ll end up in my boat – a humble but educated Christian, looking back on how you once thought and chuckling to yourself.

    God loves you regardless of your inadvertant ignorance. Hoping that you see the light one day. Blessings to you and your fam.

    Word.

    1. Oh yes, it’s just so “humble” to go around pretending you are holier than others, calling them “arrogant” and “ignorant” because they don’t share in your sexist, ethnically biased fairytale! :-x

      It should be obvious by now that I reject the manmade biblical “Lord” character.

      Moreover, enlightened people are not so base/animalistic as to judge/dominate others based on gender. That lack of consciousness is for cavemen.

      Consciousness has no gender and can be perceived by any person with a brain. Not to say that it is, but it can be. Gender plays no role in it; nor do we need the mythical Jesus character in order to perceive consciousness.

      Lee Strobel’s book is kindergarten level apologetics.

      1. Cavemen
        Your comment about cavemen is irrational and betrays a misanthropic bias. If, as allegedly rational beings, we stick to the real world and observable facts, we can see that we know nothing about cavemen’s attitude towards women. You would be well advised to avoid making unprovable statements in the future, especially if you intend to be taken seriously by anybody with a brain.

        1. Yes, you are correct. Calling such individuals “cavemen” constitutes an insult to cavemen.

          I apologize to cavemen everywhere.

          You would be well advised not to go around insulting and making demands of others over a figure of speech, if you want not to be taken as a sociopath.

    1. Larry Silverstein,

      Thanks for proving to us that you’re a misogynistic a**hole. The world would’ve been better off had you been aborted.

  27. Planet of the Apes had more sophistication
    Planet of the Apes had more sophistication; at least the ‘head honcho’ apes at a point could not deny what their eyes were seeing. The fanatics that we deal with here and now deny even the evidence in front of them :lol: .

  28. You Have it Wrong!
    Submission is strength. The ability to choose the way you respond is strengh, in all respects. A person who is able to let go all personal resistance to another is ultimately strong. Try it, see how strong you are. The stumbling points are: relinquishing control and, being ok with people who don’t share your point of view. If you can leave yourself completely vulnerable, then you make a conscious choice. Then you are truly free. Fear of losing control or sensitivity to other’s views is the fear of being unimportant, of no value, or dead. See Robert Ricco. Don’t be scammed by people who make a living off of your fears! It is then you may begin to learn the wisdom of women and religion.

    1. This is one of the craziest things I have ever read! But, if I were going to try to mind control someone, I would give them that ignorant logic too!

  29. If you are not even able to chose the field of study that you wanted, but studied something your husband required of you, how could you, if elected, have the ability to lead? If you know you should go this way, but your husband said go that way ,you would submit. Not the qualities of a good leader. You’re a smart woman, check out what the bible really says about women. That won’t be easy because the bible has been tweaked through time concerning the female role.

  30. re: your disgusting mysogyny
    hahahaha men that think like you can wine and cry all you want the fact is the male ego has consumed enough of the earth and has done horrendous damage in every possible way. The ile ios astrotheology and no christian has any idea what it is really talking aout therefore they walk in darness under the spirit of lucifer which is the male ego in defiance of God. The hellfire of patriarchy is at its end. Gooodridance.

  31. Wouldn’t that normally depend on who has the better insight into the situation? Not just go with the man because he is Lord and Master? How utterly stupid of you!

    1. Oh–I wish SO MUCH I could be married to YOU! I am not joke as some might consider..I NEED to bow down to a man-master-really I do, I feel very lost without.

  32. Woman who isn’t a church goer but believes in the
    I had to respond to this article because most of the ignorance of the bible comes from half beliefs &/ people just wanting to find things wrong and not putting what they hear someone else say in context.Also the notion of marriage is a product of the bible FYI.

    What does the New Testament say about women?
    Saturday, 20 August 2011 20:20 Acharya S Contributing Writers – Acharya S/D.M. Murdock

    “Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.”
    Colossians 3:18 – This is based on the condition that your husband is a “good God fearing bible believing husband”. As an aside the bible also says at Proverbs 18:22 “A man who finds a wife finds a good thing”. What does one do with a good thing? you cherish it and you nurture it. If you nurture it and cherish it you will protect it. If I trust that my husband loves me so much to protect me and he advises not to do something then I will not do it. Also the notion of marriage is a product of the bible FYI.

    With Christian women entering into the political arena more frequently, it is necessary to take a look at exactly what Christianity teaches about women. We are reminded, of course, of Republican presidential candidate Michele Bachmann’s remark about “submitting to her husband,” which means just that: Submission, not “respect” or any other sophistic excuse. Indeed, the same Greek word for “submissive” found in Colossians 3:18 – ὑποτάσσω or “hypotasso” – appears also at Titus 2:9, in Paul’s exhortation for slaves to be submissive to their masters.
    This Greek word hypotasso means (Strong’s G5293):
    1) to arrange under, to subordinate
    2) to subject, put in subjection
    3) to subject one’s self, obey
    4) to submit to one’s control
    5) to yield to one’s admonition or advice
    6) to obey, be subject

    Thanks for the spelling bee lesson.

    The fact remains that the male-dominant patriarchal religions, such as Judaism, Christianity and Islam, require women to be in an inferior position. All or nothing… no requirement … if everyone is in line with the entire script it will come naturally. Are men not naturally stronger and more protective by nature… by science?

    Quotes from the New Testament about women

    “It is well for a man not to touch a woman. But because of the temptation to immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband.” 1 Corinthians 7:1-2 Everybody complains about whores and cheating husbands yet there is a problem with this statement? Also we know it is much harder for men to keep their hands to themselves so saying it is well for a man not to touch a woman is a no brainer if you are trying to say have 1 wife and 1 husband.

    “But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of every woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God…. any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled dishonors her head …For if a woman will not veil herself, then she should cut off her hair …For a man ought not to cover his head; since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. (For man was not made from woman, but woman from man. Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.)” 1 Corinthians 11:2-10 Her husband is the head under the condition that he is God fearing and believes in the bible. If not then there is clearly no reason to have this debate. If you’re complaining about this phrase that means you must believe that Eve deceived Adam and then the whole thing comes right back around. This one clearly explains itself if you are going to quote from the bible. The bible must be used as the reference and not life as it has become.

    “Wives, be submissive to your husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. As the church is subject to Christ, so let wives also be subject in everything to their husbands.” Ephesians 5:21-24 See above.

    “…the women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.” 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 Every time whether in church or otherwise that a woman speaks up over a man the world has a problem. Don’t you see the bible just trying to keep the peace amongst you confused humans?… Serioiusly though… again… if you going to follow the entire thing if the man is a “good God fearing and BIBLE sensible being” no “BIBLE sensible” wife will have a problem with this.

    “Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or have authority over men; she is to keep silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet woman will be saved through bearing children, if she continues in faith and love and holiness, with modesty.” 1 Timothy 2:11-15 Above Above Above.

    “Wives, be subject to your husband, as is fitting in the Lord. Husbands, love your wives, and do not be harsh with them. Children, obey your parents in everything, for this pleases the Lord. Fathers, do not provoke your children, lest they become discouraged. Slaves, obey in everything those who are your earthly masters, not with eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but in singleness of heart, fearing the Lord.” Colossians 3:18-22 OMG Right here! In case u did not just read it : “Husbands, love your wives, and do not be harsh with them.” – The condition. Failing that condition we definitely have a problem being submissive.

    “….and so train the young women to love their husbands and children, to be sensible, chaste, domestic, kind, and submissive to their husbands, that the word of God may not be discredited…. Bid slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in every respect…” Titus 2:4-9 Seriously… if you are going to say 4-9, show 4-9 …Heck show the whole Titus 2 :
    But as for you, teach what accords with sound[a] doctrine. 2 Older men are to be sober-minded, dignified, self-controlled, sound in faith, in love, and in steadfastness. 3 Older women likewise are to be reverent in behavior, not slanderers or slaves to much wine. They are to teach what is good, 4 and so train the young women to love their husbands and children, 5 to be self-controlled, pure, working at home, kind, and submissive to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be reviled. 6 Likewise, urge the younger men to be self-controlled. 7 Show yourself in all respects to be a model of good works, and in your teaching show integrity, dignity, 8 and sound speech that cannot be condemned, so that an opponent may be put to shame, having nothing evil to say about us. 9 Bondservants[b] are to be submissive to their own masters in everything; they are to be well-pleasing, not argumentative, 10 not pilfering, but showing all good faith, so that in everything they may adorn the doctrine of God our Savior.

    11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, 12 training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, 13 waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.

    15 Declare these things; exhort and rebuke with all authority. Let no one disregard you.
    CONTEXT. That being said, please also note that as you go to your 9 to 5 you are a slave to your employer in the context sooo not only women to be submissive here.

    “No one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who had been redeemed from the earth. It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are chaste…” Revelation 14:3-4 again read what’s around it… “3 They sang as it were a new song before the throne, before the four living creatures, and the elders; and no one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who were redeemed from the earth. 4 These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed[a] from among men, being first fruits to God and to the Lamb.” … Defiled by wom’E’n … obviously not a wife. Let’s face it.. women are distracting.. These hundred and forty four people are obviously super special and 100% good to their head which is Christ. Because imagine having to pick 144 thousand out of 7 billion sinners. You must be a loner with no distractions. Not even Mother Theresa or Ghandi fits this bill.

    Summary of New Testament Quotes about women
    It is good for a man not to touch a woman, so that he is not tempted to “immorality” and does not “defile” himself. Men are the “heads” of their wives and the “glory of God,” whereas the woman is merely the “glory of man.” Man was not created from woman, but woman from man. Women must be submissive in everything and subject to their husbands, who, again, are their “heads.” Women should not speak in church but must remain subordinate and learn in submissiveness. No woman can teach or have authority over men. Girls and women must be “trained” to love and to be sensible, chaste, domestic and submissive to their husbands. – Believe or don’t believe. If you believe seek positive and contextual answers and know that you cannot believe partially or this kind of thing will happen. If you don’t believe why on earth do you need to spend time finding things out of context for an unnecessary debate or I guess it could be affirmation?? Just don’t believe and keep it moving.
    Just saying.

    1. Thank you. What I have stated here is truthful, factual and accurate. Christianity is full of misogynistic attitudes, and this fact has been proved numerous times over, with the heinous treatment of women over the past 2,000 years. Trite responses and deflections are insufficient.

      “Thanks for the spelling bee lesson.” It’s not a “spelling bee lesson,” but comment shows the lack of quality in your responses. I do not have time to rebut the rest of your remarks, but it is absolutely necessary to expose the facts about Christianity and the biblical sexism.

      In the regard, I have no interest in justifications or excuses to ignore this inequity. If you choose to believe, that is your prerogative, but I will continue to expose this blatant bigotry in all ways, shapes and forms.

  33. The non church goer
    Considering the rest was mainly expanding on the verses you mentioned to show the deeper context I am really not looking for any kind of rebuttal but more a hope that you have read it to get the point eventually.

    The spelling bee comment was actually akin to the manner you wrote the original article so let’s not get into the this notion about quality.

    Again you missed the point because there is nothing to expose if a person really and truly believes in what the bible has to say. The fact is that yes there is all manner of sexism in the text. But it NEVER says a woman is incapable of doing the things a man does. It says she shouldn’t. Likewise the God of the Bible would rather men not take care of the house and children. It is all in Biblical context.

    And we agree the it is the prerogative of the person that chooses to believe, which leaves you nothing to expose and further cements my notion that people who don’t believe, who make statements outside of the context of the entire bible are wasting their time. Why the need to expose something you don’t believe in when everything is clear in this bible that they believe in?

    Sensible people do not use the life we live now to justify the bible. That negates the whole point of it.

    I do believe however that you would have a greater argument of trying to expose religion outside of the bible, because religions have completely skewed the concepts of the bible. You cannot have the same religion and go to war against each other for Nationality. Is it that, let’s say, catholics in one country have a different bible from the catholics in another country?

    ps. This has been coming from a single, 30 something female who is well educated and can do most things men can do and have done it. I would also never stand for any kind of woman brutalization. So it is not that I fit the bill of the biblical woman at all.

    1. The “spelling bee” remark was a ridiculous dismissal of an important scholarly point I was making that you continue to fail to comprehend.

      I don’t have time for this back and forth. What I have said here remains true and factual. Christianity is false and oppressive towards women, regardless of supposedly brilliant snarky comments and analysis.

      You’d be much better off realizing that Christianity is based on ancient myths, designed in significant part to oppress and enslaves females. Christianity destroyed the ancient goddess-worshipping cultures.

      You are not on the right side in upholding this false and patently mythological ideology. I frankly don’t have much interest in the opinion of a woman supposedly educated who would uphold this sexist desert cult. You appear to be in denial.

      And you are not educated on the subject of Christ-myth studies ([url]http://truthbeknown.com/christconspiracy.html[/url]), regardless of your background. If you would like to be, feel free to read my work. You can search across my websites and forums at this very link ([url]http://freethoughtnation.com[/url]).

      Cheers.

  34. I’m terribly sorry to hear that you have spent the last 20 years of your life trying to convince people who believe in talking serpents; seas parting at the wave of a wand; stones killing giants; virgin births; ghost sightings; raising from the dead and; a place where it takes eternity to burn, that they need to be concerned about women being oppressed.

    You have stated facts as the verses were true but out of the context of the entire bible.

    The fact is there are 3 types of people as it pertains to the bible:

    1. The believers. They live happy lives through the faith and hope they get from all of the above mentioned.

    2. The ones that read (maybe not even all of it) just to see what it’s all about. Half of these live lives independent of the bible and the other half ironically trying to disprove things like talking serpents.

    3. The ones that the bible does not exist.

    My point was that all of these things you speak of are not independent of the serpents and parting seas. The people you are trying to convince already know what is in there and they generally seek the positive things in the stories. There is hardly a modern christian family that the woman submits in the true independent sense of the word. They work together or they divorce.

    Since you are uninterested in the back and forth as you put it, if you do have a change of heart and respond to this it will probably go unread by me.

    Happy hunting. :side:

  35. Corinthians 11:2-10 is applying to male and female energies. I think that human beings misunderstanding the versions. This version is talking about those who using their soul (male energy a man) which is in a flesh (either male or female being as female energy) is christ. So, the flesh (female energy of either male or female being) is “her husband” as means flesh’s soul which giving life to the flesh other wise flesh can’t life without the soul. “the head of Christ is God” as means only occur after infused your flesh with your soul to become Christ. So those who not christ (“any woman” as either male or female human being) who prays or prophesies with her head (flesh’s will) unveiled dishonors her head (as means dishonors their soul). “[Soul's will] is the image and glory of God; but woman (flesh) is the glory of man (soul). “For man was not made from woman, but woman from man” as this quoted means that soul created female energies of human beings of both male and female being. “Neither was [soul] created for [flesh], but [flesh] for [soul]” I hope my saying is helping you all that Spiritual language is what is God is talking about. Those who wrote it understood the Spiritual World and tried their best to interpret into human language and mistook as means women (flesh) is lesser than men (flesh). The bible is talking about between your flesh and your soul and not between female and male being in some ways.

  36. so, in my your opinion, are women lesser than men? no not in human beings. women and male flesh are equal. the version not talking about that level but only between soul which is male energy and flesh of either female and male human is female energy…. mother of god is cosmic energy and father of god is soul energy… our soul are neither female nor male…

  37. The world has changed since the Bible was written. Most men want women to work but they still want torun things. They are a joke in todays society.

  38. It is clear from genisus to revelation, mman is the head in all leadership role,family, church. Any women who attempts to be a pastor,Bishop,priest,elder is a SIN,ignoring scripture. A Man is to have authority, period. Any woman claiming headship over a man is a false teacher,prophet.it is wrong.

  39. there is no way god, in whom i believe, want us to be so sure of the exact words in the bible. there’s no way. if god wanted us to be so sure of each and every word and their exact meaning he would have sent jesus at a different time. think about it. god sent jesus at a time when jesus spoke aramaic; reaching out to people who spoke hebrew; and eventually having this words and followers spread to greek speaking people. further, most of what we are told in the new testament was written generations later based primarily on stories told for the generations preceding them.

    god doesn’t make mistakes. he sent jesus when he did at time and under circumstances that clearly lack precision.

    it’s clear to me that god is telling us through his sending jesus at such an imprecise time..and under such imprecise circumstances…that we should not even try to find precision in the bible.

    clearly there is more truth from god than the bible.

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