Thomas Jefferson was a freethinker, not a devout Christian
“Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned: yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.”
American president Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVII
(Jefferson, Thomas. Notes on the State of Virginia. ed. David Waldstreicher. NY: Palgrave Macmillan, 2002, p. 193.)
Please spare me the “America was founded as a Christian nation” pabulum. The Founding Fathers were trying to prevent the Christian tyranny that had plagued Europe for centuries and that had been carried across the pond by the Puritans who were purportedly escaping persecution by other Christians but who themselves became the persecutors. What else is new.
There is no way on Goddess’s green earth that Jefferson would be part of the Christian fanaticism prevalent in the party that he founded (his original party is now called the “Democratic-Republican Party“). It is obvious from his battle with John Adams, who was more like the evangelists of today, that Jefferson was not of that mindset at all.
Thomas Jefferson was a freethinker, not a devout Christian. The secular U.S. is largely his vision. I stand with Jefferson, as a freethinker and secularist. Jefferson has been a significant role model for me since I was a child, and I consider him one of the greatest human beings who ever lived. I emulated his education by studying Classics and languages.
We CANNOT allow Jefferson’s great vision to be destroyed after a mere 230+ years. That destruction would be a crime against humanity! Imagine nothing but lands of tyranny and oppression, with nowhere to turn or run to. Horrifying thought.
Jefferson lives on!!
P.S. Jefferson was not only a freethinker but also apparently at times pondered the subject of Jesus mythicism, as revealed in my article, “Did George Washington and Thomas Jefferson Believe Jesus was a Myth?
24 thoughts on “Thomas Jefferson was a freethinker, not a devout Christian”
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OMG, I love you, Acharya S!!!
[b]”The secular U.S. is largely his vision. I stand with Jefferson, as a freethinker and secularist. Jefferson has been a significant role model for me since I was a child, and I consider him one of the greatest human beings who ever lived. I emulated his education by studying Classics and languages.”[/b]
The founding fathers are always held in very high esteem; people sometimes get teary eyed when talking about the founding fathers, yet, I’ve never heard about anybody trying to emulate them. I am quite impressed with the fact you, Acharya S, have followed in Thomas Jefferson’s footsteps. I also love the fact that you’re both mythicists.
It’s sad to see the Christian religious-right desperate attempt at revisionism to demote Jefferson and remove him from the history of the USA such as the education board in Texas. They should be ashamed of themselves.
I bet Jefferson would’ve loved your Mythicist Position!
And yet those without Christianity are just as likely to be oppressive and tyrannical. Religion is not the problem here, but the tendency we as humans have to be selfish. The Soviets under men such as Stalin were undoubtedly some of the worst despots this world has seen. And they tried to destroy the faith of their subjects. Some of the activists taking part in the French revolution attempted to create a wholly secular government. It suffered so much internal conflict that the point was abandoned in a few years. My point isn’t that atheists or freethinkers are dangerous, but rather that removing religion doesn’t improve anything.
Who said anything about “removing religion?”
I personally don’t like the man or abide by his reign of terror, but Stalin was abused by religion ([url]http://freethoughtnation.com/contributing-writers/63-acharya-s/334-were-stalin-hitler-and-pol-pot-atheists.html[/url]); hence, he hated it, with good reason.
What we are doing here is STUDYING religion, not “removing” it. Studying the various religions of the world tends to make one LESS of a fanatic about any single one. We are critiquing the bad aspects of religion while exposing the hidden symbolism that actually reveals that much religious and mythical ideation possesses profound meaning beyond all the megalomania and superstition.
Exactly what “profound meaning” ?
Am serious : I want to grow and learn. What “profound meaning beyond superstition and megalomania” are you talking about ?
Thank you for your interest. The profound meaning of much religious ideation can be found in the myths, such as those that revolve around celestial entities, including the sun, moon, planets, stars and constellations. Natural cycles in various parts of the world were also recorded in these myths. A great deal of scientific observation has been passed along in these stories of personified entities such as the numerous sun gods and so on.
For more information, see my books, such as [i]Suns of God[/i] ([url]http://truthbeknown.com/sunsofgod.htm[/url]).
And yet …
“And yet those without Christianity are just as likely to be oppressive and tyrannical” That is a meaningless statement. It’s like saying “And yet those without Ranch Style Beans or maybe Lime Jello are just as likely to be oppressive and tyrannical” They might be, but so what? Ranch Style Beans are not the default psychological setting for the entire world. Religion is the problem. It always has been. It is socially sanctioned mental illness which creates an arrogant, sanctimonious fantasy world wherein its adherents are supremacist in their thinking and behavior. Ridding the world of religion in its current forms would obviously not solve all of humanity’s problems, but it would get rid of numerous versions of organized insanity which have propagated and perpetuated atrocities all over the Earth throughout history to this day.
I really want a cat,,
But schrodinger put it in a box. And some crooks are going around selling cats in boxes . I asked a agnostic which box should I buy?,he said any will do cause who could know what state the cat was in, but surely if a box must be had to open and find a cat , then buying a box is nessesary ! No box, no cat. Frustrated I asked the religious , they said if I really deserved a cat it would be in the box I buy , but mustn’t open it because loss of faith that it is there will cause it to not be there. I asked the athiests , they said ” what’s a cat? I’ve never seen one ,it doesn’t exist”! Finally I asked a free thinker , they said , ” go open every box you see , if they hide the contents you know nothing is inside. Truth should always come free, it is the keeping of it that costs”- peace
at AS alias acharya S
So now all those secular terrorists like Stalin , Hitler , Mao , Pol Pot , Idi Amin etc. have been abused by religion(especially Christianity as usual is to blame ) . And they therefore became murderers .
What is the matter with you ?
Why all the blame for Christianity ?
I thought that the Quakers were one of the first who opposed against slavery in the U.S.A. . Their example of conduct was the life of a guy you probably have heard of before , we cannot find any evidence that rabbi J. had slaves . It took a lot of time but slavery was eventually eradicated by those inspired by religion .
I wonder why you are so angry . In history of mankind for the past 10 millennia millions have been killed in wars and fighting . And you know what , a lot of times Christians had nothing to do with it .
I wonder why you use a hindu qualification like acharya ?
Yes, actually, Stalin WAS abused by religion, and it WAS Christianity. Hitler was also Christian, and he clearly states he is fighting for Jesus. Pol Pot was raised Buddhist and Catholic, the latter of which religion led a centuries-long Inquisition that slaughtered thousands. I don’t talk about Idi Amin, so you are putting words in my mouth. He was likely a follower of African religion and not a secularist. In any event, secularism is not an ideology that promotes genocide – on the contary, it was developed in order to STOP genocide based on religion. Again, that’s what the Founding Fathers were trying to prevent.
The question is, what’s the matter with you that [i]you [/i]would defend such a record ([url]http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htm[/url]) and attack someone personally over it?
As concerns “Rabbi J,” a fictional character, the New Testament says nothing [i]against [/i]slavery. In fact, the “Pauline” epistles repeatedly exhort slaves to be happy in their state of slavery.
“Slaves, be obedient to those who are your earthly masters, with fear and trembling, in singleness of heart, as to Christ …” Ephesians 6:5
“Let all who are under the yoke of slavery regard their masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be defamed.” 1 Timothy 6
“Servants, be submissive to your masters with all respect, not only to the kind and gentle but to the overbearing. For one is approved if, mindful of God, he endures pain while suffering unjustly. For what credit is it, if when you do wrong and are beaten for it you take it patiently? But if when you do right and suffer for it you take it patiently, you have God’s approval.” 1 Peter 2:18-20
Actually, many of the people involved in the anti-slavery movement were SECULARISTS. Jefferson was one of the first anti-slavery secularists.
Calling me “angry” is not an argument – it’s a deflection used to turn the debate around on the opponent. It is not these other systems that have led to the deaths of hundreds of millions that we are discussing here – we are discussing Christianity. Elsewhere I discuss the slaughter of hundreds of millions in the name of Islam. And elsewhere we could also discuss the threat of Chinese Communism, but this thread is about whether or not Jefferson is a Christian; hence, discussing Christianity is relevant.
As concerns my name, that’s none of anyone’s business, obviously, and another deflection off the subject. I chose it because I wanted to and I could. But if you really need to know, it was in part so I could tease the Hindu patriarchy, because “no woman can be an Acharya.”
Enough to chew on?
Any Real Christian shudders at persecution , but brings it on themselves as aligning with a group that doesn’t promote accountability of use of the monicker “Christianity “! When you don’t stand up and define yourself as the only Christian church and let anybody use the name Christian , it’s your own fault! Besides if you are reading this and call yourself Christian , chances are that you are Not, and chances are you probly belong to a cult that only uses a monicker. Yes I’m talking to you episcopalian , catholic,Protestant ,Morman, Lutheran , Presbyterian ,evangelical , babtist,etc,etc.. YOU are the persecutors of Christianity ! You have gone throughout the world spreading seed that didn’t belong to you sprouted from posion trees of your church elders who fully knowing that they are liars and take what they have no intention of returning . you serve one master and hate another. You need to wake up and realize the commentary you have for your “faith” is someone else’s commentary not yours. If you cannot use your grown up words to define your “own” faith, you have none. Know for YOURSELF, stop regurgitating ignorance. If you are not smart enough to do it for yourself then please, let ignorance be bliss and stop pretending you even have a clue! Jesus of the new testament is nothing like what denominations are… Jesus came for everyone, not a denomination,either Christian up , forgive and shut up, or at least quit trying to claim something false to you , when the fruit you bear can be seen by everyone.That’s right, love is love and hate is hate.! -peace
P.s. I AM
ancorson, you’ve obviously never read Hitler’s book “Mein Kampf” or in English “My Struggle.” In it Hitler praises Jesus all over the place so, to claim he wasn’t Christians flies in complete opposition to Hitler’s very own words.
Hitler’s Christianity ([url]http://www.nobeliefs.com/Hitler1.htm[/url])
[quote]”Secular schools can never be tolerated because such a school has no religious instruction and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith … We need believing people.”
– Adolf Hitler, April 26, 1933, from a speech made during negotiations leading to the Nazi-Vatican Concordat of 1933. [/quote]
hitler was NOT a christian
Larry you are a “good believer” . Hitler trying to gain power is using the honey pot and is smearing it around the mouths of those dumbo christians .
The reality Larry is quite different .
Hitler did not want christianity , even if he said or wrote otherwise for political reasons .
Hitler wanted a complete new world order without christianity , the man is only an opportunistic fascist politician and tells every story you want to hear or read only for gaining absolute power .
Hitler knew he would never become in charge if he would reveal his real agenda .
What was the reality after he became ruler ?
He created ‘lebensborn’ an institution to breed a race of arians . Something like breeding racehorses .
He wanted a new culture . Music Karl Orff with his carmina burana .
He wanted an new architecture and fantasized his megalomania oversized buildings together with Albert Speer .
He exterminated ‘inferior people’ because in his worldview the unchristian believe of “the strongest have to survive and have the right to kill the weak according to natural laws” was his motto .
etc. etc.
You make a big and huge mistake sir by not being able to distinguish opportunistic politics (Mein Kampf) and his real agenda . The Extermination of Christianity was a long term goal and with his politics it would eventually be the end of christianity . The man was only lying to get the power and after that he wanted to transform the whole of society to an arian fascist society with its own occult believe . And his long term goal was the extermination of Christianity . The man despised christianity because it is about empathy , he hated that . You can find the proof in his deeds and not necessarily in his opportunistic words .
Hitler was NOT a Christian , you can find the proof in his deeds .
You can as an example also read the Quran . Do you believe the words in it ? lol . It is the same opportunistic crap as in ‘mein kampf’
Baahahaha, make it up however you need to, ancorson, however the facts and evidence tell quite a different story – but, it sure ain’t yours.
larry Baahahaha
Larry you have the right to believe the words of Adolf Hitler . You believe in ‘ Mein Kampf ‘ okay . I don’t believe in It , it are all lies .
May be you also believe the words of Joseph Goebbels . I don’t believe in him either . You probably have a lack of IQ to understand that Hitler lied to gain power .
And Mr. Hitler the christian went to church every sunday ? I am sorry but LOL . LOL . And on monday he evacuated a hospital with mentally disabled patients and put them in the ovens ? Yes of course that is what devout christians do . Why don’t you wash the dirt out of your eyes , it is about time .
May be you should reevaluate your false knowledge .
Sig hiel
Dude, ancorson,WW2 is OVER, or is it? Supposition of facts is not factual it is supposition . You overstate the facts, hitlers belief was his own but if actions taken by the entire nazi regeame are to be placed as a reflection of a leaderships belief system,,,, well then you got a hard choice of supposition to reflect at the current leaders of the world. People claiming to be noble persons, but if you ask me , one bad apple only only spoils the bunch of apples, it takes a whole lot more politicians to spoil a system of people who have minds and think. You just gotta think! “How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don’t think”.-Adolf Hitler .
Please forgive if I offend, but your comments not only seemed biased towards opinion of facts, but You contradict yourself in your attack of Larry’s statement When you say;Hitler knew he would never become in charge if he would reveal his real agenda . So if he never revealed ,,, then you are hitler and he really never died… Lol . Be nice,best wishes for ya pal- peace
Your answer is the proof that you are not an आचार्य .
“Hitler was also Christian, and he clearly states he is fighting for Jesus.”
This statement is of such an abysmal stupidity that it makes me wonder.
Hitler appointed Baldur von Schirach to recreate an entire on paganism based system . May be you have a lot of knowledge about astro-mythology , anthropomorphism and antropotheism . And let me tell you , I respect you for that . But what you are saying about Hitler shows an absolute lack of the reality in Germany between 1933 and 1945 . Hitler had nothing with Christianity , he despised it . He was a man who had no empathy towards other groups and based it’s state of mind on nature , like a lion who kills a lam has no empathy , so was Adolf Hitler . He wanted a superior race , it was all based on inferiority and superiority . The total lack of empathy proofs the man has nothing with christianity . Hitler was the example of the animalisation of humanity . Where do you get such kind of crap ? Stating that Hitler was a Christian . And Mao was also a Christian ? You think you are so superior , why don’t you google Baldur von Shirach . Don’t be so arrogant with your attitude to always knowing everything better then anybody else .Let’s see if you have some guts to publish my comment . And may I advice you to look at a youtube video of Ananda Mayi Ma , then you can see a real woman who is more of an acharya then thousands of brahmanen .
Thomas Jefferson blogs about religion!
Thomas Jefferson now blogs!
Several times each week, he posts briefly on a variety of topics, including religion.
Recent posts:
– How do the poor people live?
– Were you this clever at 16?
– What’s a valetudinarian? (You don’t want to be one.)
– (a video post) Does one lie lead to another? And another? And …
– Can I get an “Amen!,” somebody?
Read his own words at http://ThomasJeffersonLeadership.com/blog/
Yes, of course, you’d prefer your Christian revisionist distorted view, however, the rest of us will stick to the facts and evidence. I especially love how you put words in my mouth by claiming: “You believe in ‘Mein Kampf’ ” – it looks like your hatred is showing itself.
ancorson “monday he evacuated a hospital with mentally disabled patients and put them in the ovens ? Yes of course that is what devout christians do “
Your sarcasm displays your utter ignorance of the facts, Christians have slaughtered millions. They have a history of killing with no problem at all. Perhaps you’ve heard of the witch hunts, Inquisitions and DARK AGES?
How many has God killed? ([url]http://www.freethoughtnation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2381[/url])
Have 250 million been killed in the name of Christianity? ([url]http://freethoughtnation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19748[/url])
“My feeling as a Christian leads me to be a fighter for my Lord and Saviour.”
– Hitler ([url]http://books.google.com/books?cd=2&id=ARloAAAAMAAJ&dq=%22My+feeling+as+a+Christian+leads+me+to+be+a+fighter%22&q=%22My+feeling+as+a+Christian+leads+me+to+be+a+fighter+for+my+Lord+and+Saviour%22#search_anchor[/url])
“Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.”
– Hitler
“The national government…will extend its firm protection to Christianity as the basis of our moral system…”
– Hitler
Perhaps you just forgot how much Hitler was helped by the Catholic church and other churches:
[quote]”Whether Protestant pastor or Catholic priest, each did his very utmost in helping our powers of resistance to hold out, not only in the trenches but also, and even more so, at home. During those years, and especially during the first outburst of enthusiasm, in both religious camps there was one undivided and sacred German Empire for whose preservation and future existence they all prayed to Heaven.”
– Adolf Hitler, on WWI, Mein Kampf, I, 3[/quote]
Hitler took Jesus to heart when he said:
[quote]”My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice… And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.”
– Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922[/quote]
Of course, this blog isn’t about Hitler, it’s about Thomas Jefferson so, this is all off topic here. I recommend you actually study the subject and stop trolling this blog with your utter ignorance.
Thomas Jefferson
Dear AS
Thanks!
I’m a student of Santo’s Bonacci, Bill Donahue and have read some of your work as well, I am also on your news letter mailing list. I also appreciate you and your work. Would you be so kind to recommend readings regarding TJ so that I could quickly catch up on the Man and everything he spoke. What book name, titles, list, could you recommend that would put me on the path in the shortest amount of time.
Please advise and thanks for being you in resonance and in balance, for I am and have been, blessed by it, as well as so many others.
Thank you!
Peter,
Hi there –
You can start with some background, such as my article “Did George Washington and Thomas Jefferson believe Jesus was a myth? ([url]http://truthbeknown.com/washington-jefferson-mythicists.html[/url])” That should blow a few minds.
From there, I would recommend going to the Monticello.org website ([url]http://www.monticello.org/site/jefferson[/url]) and follow the trail – happy travels!
.
Nice to see Acharya S fighting Christ and then sticking to the religion of liberty and non-censorship. Fact is, without Christ none of these things would be around; democracy is about meekness not just before the truth but before the right to believe what one wants to believe is true. The Gospel is too often confused with the church. and in that regard, with likely exception of those who want to enforce religious law, the rest, those who don’t insist on the ‘sacredness’ of their positions while vigorously defending their views, belong, grosso modo, to Christ.
It’s ridiculous to say that I am “fighting Christ.” What I am doing is studying the primary sources of antiquity and showing where the various characteristics of the Christ figure came from, including the Old Testament scriptures and the myths of the Pagans.
Without the Pagans, the Christ myth ([url]http://truthbeknown.com/christconspiracy.html[/url]) wouldn’t exist.
Mike T: “Fact is, without Christ none of these things would be around; democracy is about meekness not just before the truth but before the right to believe what one wants to believe is true
Actually, you are very confused &/or severely misinformed as Christ (assuming you’re talking about Jesus) didn’t do anything for democracy in any way whatsoever; the ancient Greeks and Iroquois Native American Indians had influence on the US Constitution. The bible nor Jesus had anything to do with it, which is probably why they’re not mentioned in the US Constitution. There exists no democracy in the bible. The god of the bible is certainly no moderate either. Give this article by a former pastor of 20 years a good going over:
[quote]”Nowhere in Scripture will you find an acknowledgment that each individual has an “inalienable right” to be treated with fairness and respect, or that “We, the People” are capable of governing ourselves. There is no democracy in the “word of God.” In the bible, humans are “worms” and “sinners” deserving damnation, “slaves” who should humbly submit to all kings, heavenly and earthly.”
“American laws are based on a secular constitution, not the bible. Any scriptures that might support a good law do so only because they have met the test of human values, which long predate the ineffective Ten Commandments.”
“The God of Scripture slaughtered entire groups of people that offended his vanity, ordering young virgins to be kept alive as war booty for his priests (Numbers 31). “Happy shall be he that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones,” he advised (Psalm 137:9), threatening those with the wrong religion that “their women with child shall be ripped up” (Hosea 13:16), sending bears to attack 42 children who teased a prophet (II Kings 2:23-24), punishing innocent offspring to the fourth generation (Exodus 20:5), discriminating against the handicapped (Leviticus 21:18-23), promising that fathers and sons would eat each other (Ezekiel 5:10), and much more that we would find repugnant in a human being. In this theistic universe, morality is severed from reality and reduced to flattering the Sovereign.”
For Goodness Sake ([url]http://www.ffrf.org/about/bybarker/goodness.php[/url])[/quote]
[quote]”Jefferson has been a significant role model for me since I was a child, and I consider him one of the greatest human beings who ever lived. I emulated his education by studying Classics and languages.”
– Acharya S[/quote]
That blew me away, Acharya. I never knew that you emulated his education. Would you please expand upon that a bit?