Swiss minaret ban causes global uproar

swiss minaret banAnd I do mean uproar! From both sides of the debate about the recent vote by the Swiss to ban Muslim minarets – or “bayonets,” as they’ve been styled – we are hearing loud noises, howls on the one hand and cheers on the other.  The internet buzz seems to be a resounding “HEAR, HEAR, Switzerland!,”* while the “dignified” politicos and organizations such as the Vatican and Muslim and left-wing groups are squawking about “discrimination,” “racism” and “Islamophobia.” Right-wingers hope this self-preserving move on the part of the Swiss will inspire many more to prevent the Islamization of Europe and other parts of the world. As the Guardian UK reports:

…far right leaders in Europe applauded the Swiss vote and called for parallel prohibitions in other countries.

“The flag of a courageous Switzerland which wants to remain Christian is flying over a near-Islamised Europe,” said Mario Borghezio, an MEP from Italy’s anti-immigrant Northern League.

In the Netherlands, the anti-Muslim Freedom party of Geert Wilders, which is steadily growing in popularity, called for a similar vote for the Dutch. “It’s the first time that people in Europe have stood up to a form of Islamisation,” it declared.

The “right-wing” group Stop the Islamization of Europe is organizing a rally on December 13, 2009 to prevent more mosque building in the United Kingdom, while a ban on all mosque building in non-Muslim lands is being called for around the internet.

Tit for tat!

Concerning the Swiss minaret ban, Former Muslim United founder Nonie Darwish issued a statement lauding the move, remarking:

…many Muslim groups are denouncing the ban as oppression to freedom of religion. However, such Muslim groups will be more credible if they first denounced the oppression of religious minorities in Muslim countries who make it illegal to practice any religion other than Islam. Muslim groups who claim that they are oppressed in Europe should be the first to stand up and yell “not in the name of my religion” when Churches are burned in Muslim countries. But instead all we hear from Muslim groups is “I am a victim” and “I am offended” while the blood of non-Muslims is being shed in the name of Sharia….

In this regard, an article discussing how many of the Muslims in Switzerland are Turks and how they will be hurt by the ban also highlights how churches all over Turkey are being closed.  Why?  For want of worshippers, of course, because like much of the Muslim world EU-candidate Turkey has made itself extremely inhospitable to non-Muslims of all stripes. Why not, then, insist that a moratorium be put on mosque-building in non-Muslim lands until the Muslim countries stop persecuting non-Muslims in their countries? How about a reverse flood of immigration by non-Muslims into Muslim lands?

“Intolerant” of diversity?

Instead of revealing the Swiss’s “intolerance” of other cultures, the ban actually demonstrates their concern for all those who would be oppressed, persecuted or annihilated under Islamic domination, as reflected in many Muslim countries. As Brigitte Gabriel’s Act for America organization states:

The effect of the Swiss vote could be summarized as follows: “We are going to protect diversity and freedom of religion by no longer surrendering to Islamist intolerance of diversity and freedom of religion.”

Under Islamic or sharia law, women, children, gays and non-Muslims suffer tremendous inequality. Preventing Islamization, therefore, represents a step in the protection of these diverse groups.

Rivers of crocodile tears

In its article on the Swiss ban, the Guardian UK presents the opposite view, relating:

Muslim leaders from around the world, senior church figures, European politicians and human rights experts have deplored Switzerland’s decision to ban the building of minarets.

The polarising verdict in a Swiss referendum held yesterday raised fundamental questions about discrimination and freedom of religion, with the Swiss government itself doubtful over whether the popular vote could be translated into national law, as required by the country’s system of direct democracy.

“Scandalous,” said the French foreign minister, Bernard Kouchner, while Babacar Ba, a senior official of the Organisation of the Islamic Conference, warned of an “upsurge in Islamophobia” in Europe.

The BBC also reports upon the “moral outrage” over the ban:

The Vatican on Monday endorsed a statement by the conference of Swiss Bishops criticising the vote for heightening “the problems of cohabitation between religions and cultures”.

Egypt’s Grand Mufti Ali Gomaa described the ban as an insult to the feelings of the Muslim community in Switzerland and elsewhere.

Sunday’s surprise result also prompted dismay from secular leaders in Europe….

Amnesty International said the vote violated freedom of religion and would probably be overturned by the Swiss supreme court or the European Court of Human Rights.

So many crocodile tears! Is the pope given free reign to build Catholic churches and cathedrals in Muslim nations? Is Egypt’s Grand Mufti concerned about the destruction of the ancient Christian Coptic community in his country?  Are secularists protected and freethought and atheism fostered in Dar al-Islam? Does Amnesty International have anything to say about the native populations that are ultimately destroyed wherever Islam gets a serious foothold? How about the treatment of non-Muslims, women, gays, et al., in the Muslim world? Any concern at all?

Islamophobia versus Infidelophobia

Naturally, the word “Islamophobia” is being thrown around like the cheap shot that it is. Why isn’t there anything like “Buddhismophobia?” or “Hinduismophobia?” Perhaps, because, Buddhists and Hindus don’t go around the world attempting to usurp the native populations? The degree of “Islamophobia” is commensurate with the degree of aggression on the part of Muslims, period.

The bottom line is that when the Saudi kingdom and the rest of the Muslim world stops being Infidelophobic, perhaps the non-Muslims will respond in like kind. But not until then.  Of course, that would mean vetting the Koran of the numerous infidel-hating passages, so no one is holding their breath.

Fear of the “religion of peace?!”

One of the arguments against the ban, as proferred by the Swiss foreign minister, Micheline Calmy-Rey, – a clear candidate for dhimwit of the month – has been that there will be violent backlash, i.e., terrorist acts, against the Swiss. As Calmy-Rey remarks:

“Provocation risks triggering other provocation and risks inflaming extremism.”

In other words, if we don’t appease Islamic sensibilities, Muslim fanatics will start blowing up things and murdering people.  Just give the schoolyard bully his money so that he will go away and attack somebody else instead! As Sir Winston Churchill said: “An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.”

But, why oh why, should we be worried about people who follow the peaceful religion of Islam?  Isn’t it just mindless Islamophobia to suggest that members of the religion of peace will become violent? It’s just crazy people hijacking the peaceful faith!

Where are the Western leaders?

Many citizens of non-Muslim countries have asked, where are our political leaders while our lands are being yielded to hordes of non-assimilating immigrants? If author Bat Ye’or is correct about the deliberate plot of Eurabia, the political leaders are not only aware of the danger, they are bringing it about on purpose.  They have been bought off by Saudi oil money and have made agreements much as was done by Pagan leaders in the face of a Christian onslaught centuries ago, or the African tribal leaders who sold their own people into slavery.  In the planned Islamic global caliphate, the non-Muslim leaders will be allowed to rule as dhimmi puppets – as they seem to be already.

For a variety of reasons including national security, the world desperately need to get off the oil standard and to stop giving trillion$ to the Saudis and other Muslim oil-producing nations, such as Iran.  It may be too late, however, as the Islamists have gotten their hooks into many other businesses, and with sharia banking being pushed everywhere, they will continue to reap from practically any transaction.

Remember the Golden Rule:  He who owns the gold, rules.  So, why not boycott products from Muslim nations, like they are always doing with those who reject Islamization or who “insult” Islam?

* New (informal) statistics regarding the Swiss ban showing overwhelming support for restricted Islamization in Europe:

* France: 49,000 readers at Le Figaro, by a 73-27 percent margin, would vote to ban new minarets in their country. 24,000 readers at L’Express agreed by an 86-12 percent margin, with 2 percent undecided. A leading columnist, Ivan Rioufol of Le Figaro, wrote an article titled “Homage to the Resistance of the Swiss People.” President Nicolas Sarkozy was quoted as saying that “the people, in Switzerland as in France, don’t want their country to change, that it be denatured. They want to keep their identity.”

* Germany: 29.000 readers at Der Spiegel voted 76-21 percent, with 2 percent undecided, to ban minarets in Germany. 17,000 readers of Die Welt voted 82-16 in favor of “Yes, I feel cramped by minarets” over “No, freedom of religion is constrained.”

* Spain: 14,000 readers of 20 Minutos voted 93-6 percent in favor of the statement “Good, we must curb Islamization’s growing presence” and against “Bad, it is an obstacle to the integration of immigrants.” 35,000 readers of El Mondo replied 80-20 percent that they support a Swiss-like banning of minarets.

Sources & Further Reading

Swiss ban on minarets draws widespread condemnation
Vatican and Muslims condemn Swiss minaret ban vote
Former Muslims United Applauds Swiss Referendum Victory banning Minarets, ‘the Bayonets of Islam’
Minaret ban ‘a security risk’ – Swiss minister
Islam is not a race
‘Death to Islamophobes!’
Swiss Minarets and European Islam

59 Comments

Add a Comment
  1. who cares?
    Fuck these rag heads. they want to kill all of us. these rag heads want to control the world. These fukers should be…. who the hell do they think they are? These fukers are trying to run the world.
    France and england has taken in these rag heads and they want to get them out of their country. do you think for one moment they are going to come up to you and give you a hug? a kiss? fuck no. they want to kill you. send them back to their sand castle. Fuck them all. and if you want to come at me, then come and get some. I have enough guns…. :Pirate:

  2. All over I’m hearing all these cries about how Christians are oppressed in Muslim nations.

    I would just like you know: when have two wrongs ever made a right? Should we allow spite to dictate our governance?

    How does oppression of any religion, anywhere, do ANYTHING to promote a more peaceful world? I assume that’s what everyone wants, isn’t it?

    Using unfair fear-mongering tactics to provoke people’s hatred and fear in order to pass oppressive legislation just promotes the cycles of violence and hatred.

    1. to Laura
      Wow! Are you for real?
      Would be so tolerant if a burgler was in your house? Or what about a rapist?
      The Muslem colonization of Europe is the same thing, albiet on a much larger scale.

      I appreciate your open mindedness. But sometimes if you are too open minded your brains fall out.

  3. Let us tell all those muslims who support minaret to be a part of a mosque that minarets were built so that call for prayers could be given from a higher place so the voice could reach wider range of an area. Now that we have microphones and speakers, we do not need it and it is just a waist of money to built expensive minarets.

    By the way, there were no minarets in the mosque built by Muhammad and his companion, and what about Ka’aba? The most important mosque for the muslims, it had no minaret in the days of the Prophet.

    What I am trying to tell to the muslims is that it was just a cultural addition and it isn’t something islamic by definition, I apologise if I hurt the feelings of those muslims who keep a different view, but I would request them humbly to just do a rough research on the topic and the truth will become evident.

    As according to the recent post of respectable Acharya, if I am a muslim then whatever I say, I am just lying and playing games, It gets very hard to communicate when the other person is already pre judging you beforehand listening to the arguments you have to present.

    I live by a rule, never prejudge anyone and never doubt the sincerity of anyone. I wonder what other way is there to educate our minds impartially in a society where everyone thinks that he is right but everyone cannot be always right.

    1. “As according to the recent post of respectable Acharya, if I am a muslim then whatever I say, I am just lying and playing games”

      No, Umer, you personally have never presented yourself in such a manner. Perhaps the article I posted should be clarified as “How to Debate a Muslim Apologist” – by the way, I didn’t write that article.

      You have consistently presented yourself in a calm, rational and respectful manner, and so far you have not attempted to deflect the criticisms off Islam or deny that there may be some problems. That article only addresses those individuals who do behave in this less-than-honest manner.

      I appreciate your supportive and mitigating remarks very much, Umer.

      I am concerned that you will become ostracized from the community you are attempting to enlighten, so please do not become discouraged. So far you have proved yourself a valuable voice in this disconcerting “culture clash.”

  4. Backfire
    Why is islam being blamed for being a successful growing belief system. There are many 1000s of churches in muslim countries, There is no persecution taking place of christians by muslims.
    This will anger the muslim into retaliating against christians in africa.
    Christianity cud come to an end in africa and asia.

  5. Look, if they want their Sharia law, minarets and mosques where they run their political campaigns and burkas and their women look like giant walking black garbage bags, they can go back to their nations of origin. And if any Moslem citizens of that prospective country doesn’t like it, they can also move. Who knows, maybe they’ll be honor killed before they make their move because of some “slight” like wearing jeans or they were raped.

  6. As far as the Vatican is concerned, I think this is a good idea. Make these “priests” convert to Islam and destroy their churches and/or build/convert them into mosques.

  7. Don’t like it get out
    Why should there be any outrage over this? I mean shouldn’t the Swiss or any other people be able to decide what goes on in “their” country? Those muslims are guests there and if they don’t like it they can go home. I live in the USA and I’m tired of kowtowing to all these fu**ing foreign fucks who make their home here. I’m the son of immigrant parents, but they came here to be Americans and not to establish a mini version of where they were from. If you are a guest at someones house you abide by their rules not expect them to accomadate your bullshit needs, you should be thankful you’re allowed in at all. I wish people here would have balls and have Nativity scenes against the cries of the fu**ing jews and other non christians and I’m not even a christian. Let coutries do as they wish inside their own borders.

  8. the ban is a good thing
    muslims are nothing but occupying christian lands throughout the middle-east

    for them to demand anything is just laughable-

    us byzantines will deal with them in short order

    luke 22:36

    to those who aid them in their treason within christian nations beware
    those who have persecuted christians for the last two thousand years
    we have had enough

    what is coming is going to be great

  9. Religion sucks!
    Don’t like religious belief but if you take the base teaching of the Christ, of freedom and patience while teaching your fellow man to live without any outside support which is a true message! But all those incapable of living as a Human being, like the parasitic life of religion and Government, and try to force all others into their ways of servitude! DOES NOT MATTER WHAT FLAVOR OF SHIT THEY PREACH I.E(PAGANISM-JUDAISM-ATHEISM/BUDDHISM/HINDUISM/CHRISTIAN-ISM/TAOISM/ISLAM-ISM/COMMUNISM/SOCIALISM/CAPITOL-ISM/LEGAL-ISM/SCIENCE-ISM/POLITIC-ISM, AD-NAUSEA-UM! AND WHEN REJECTED THEY ALWAYS CRY THEY ARE BEING VICTIMIZED! NO MATTER WHAT FLAVOR SHIT THEY TRY TO SELL, YOU, ME AND US!

    Let no one desecrate your temple, for it is my abode!
    The Christ
    Your temple is not just, your body and all parts, but your heart and soul!

    See you all on the dark side of the MOON! Actually, there is no dark side of the moon, it’s all dark! Pink Floyd

    Every fool knows, a dog needs a home, for shelter, from pigs on the wing! Pink Floyd

  10. Islam and Christianity: Islam will not tolerate Christianity as is evident in nearly every country that has a Muslim majority and the Koran expressly states that there are only two choices – Islam or death. Bring on the 5th Crusade for when it does come it will be the last for Islam.

  11. No apology
    Hugs to all dhimmis and self haters out there. :love:

  12. More New World Order Bullshit of the Elite
    This so-called global uproar is nothing but bullshit. Why? Because the people so in an uproar, don’t give a rats ass about religion. For them it’s all about the “new world order” of mixing all people and all religiions so they can better divide them and control them. How long will humanity fall for this Bullshit? I applaud the Swiss, so far the only free nation in the world with BALLS. JUST HOW MANY CHRISTIAN CHURCHES ARE THEIR IN SAUDI ARABIA, YOU NEW WORLD ORDER ASSHOLES?

  13. To the first poster Laura if I may, get a clue. It’s not about spite. It’s about national freedom. Switzerland to be a free nation, has every right in the world to do this. People like you are going to literally cause unimaginable suffering.

  14. Great article Acharya!!!

    That was the right decision for the Swiss & everywhere – now, Mosques [b]*YES MOSQUES*[/b] should be banned worldwide until synagogues, churches & temples etc are allowed to be built in Islamic countries – Freethinkers, (atheists, agnostics & humanists ect) should be allowed to organize as well, [b]PERIOD[/b]. And, Muslims should be allowed to leave Islam – no more apostates being executed just for leaving Islam!!!

    Make Way for the Monster Mosque in Londonistan – that video pretty much says it all.

    The Koran does mention Jesus many times. However, they DEMOTE him to a mere mortal. That is how one culture/religion has always over-taken another throughout history. It’s religious usurpation 101. I don’t care if anyone believes in Jesus or not – I certainly do [b]*NOT*[/b] That is how it’s done throughout history. The religions of other cultures always demote the gods of the loser of a war or political battle. Or, if it’s a mutual coming together they join their attributes (never going to happen with Xianity & Islam). It’s all quite simple. And everybody should be aware.

    There must be a worldwide ban on Muslims destroying the religious architecture, art etc. Check out the destruction of archaeological artifacts such as the Buddhas of Bamyian

    http://video.aol.com/video-detail/islamic-fundamentalists-destroy-ancient-statue-of-the-buddha/112239252 ([url]Islamic Fundamentalists Destroy Ancient Statue of the Buddha” 1,700 year old Gigantic Buddhist …Statues that had been carved into the side of a mountain.[/url])

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ-oaUqvAS8 ([url]Islamic Fundamentalists Destroy Ancient Statue of the Buddha[/url])

    The world must unite against such barbarism before it’s too late!!!

  15. rolling on the floor laughing!

    yep! clapping hands for the swiss! everything has being said here in the comments, I just want to say, do as you want to be done to you…

    if you want minarets in switzerland, so allow christian churches in moslem countries… simple!

    Kamar, Brazil

  16. A simple hard line drawn in the sand will do. Make becoming Swiss, American, Danish,ect a condition of emigrating. As in: learn the language, history, laws, & values of the nation. Meet the existing people & culture more than halfway or stay out This isn’t rocket science, or even new. America did this for most of it’s history.

    The nation has duties to it’s citizens first & owes immigrants nothing. They’re the ones leaving their land & culture, seeking a better deal.They can leave or not come in the first place if they hate the west so much. It’s really sad that we have to hash this out like it’s somehow not pathetically obvious. As if it’s natural to tolerate houseguests inviting themselves over & letting them rearrange the furniture, repaint the house, & bitch about the cooking.

    The whole PC agenda has created a entire generation of cowards who soil themselves the moment some identity politics pressure group throws a tantrum. We’re all Chamberlains & no Churchills.

    The sad irony is that liberal appeasement of Islam will spell the doom of the only cultural enviornment where liberalism is tolerated. They’re coddling idealogues who hate everything they stand for & will brutally enslave them the moment they have enough power (they even say so). We need to take a look at both Holland & Saudi Arabia & decide what sort of world we want for our grandchildern. If we don’t decide, others will. In fact, they are.

  17. everyone is prejudice
    im mean really when cant someone be prejudice in this day and age,, people can cry all day about religions, what about people that dont believe in such silly things, yet i have to walk down the streets,watch it on tv, see it in movies, listening to people babble about thier religions and why i should join this or that, or pick up any mag, book, journal, or email blog and there it again, waaahhhhhh so and so said this about my religion and now my feelings are hurt, blah, what about my damn feelings, just shut the hell up, i could really care less, i say burn all the damn churches,mosques, ritual sacrifice alters,dens of worship, what ever you want to call em, down and get rid of all the religions and teach people to believe in themselves for a change, show me one FRIKIN RELIGION thats done nothing BUT GOOD and you might change my perspective, hmm jews used to sacrifice thier children TO THE GREAT OWL MOLOCH AND HAVE BEEN COMMITING CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY FOR THE PAST 50 YEARS , christians, please , they cant even get along with themselves let alone other religions, how many holy wars were there? hmmm oh and lets not forget about the great jihads,, please people really pull yer heads out from your dark crevices and WAKE THE F UP!!!!!!!!!! THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD AND THIS IS TRUE, IT SITS RIGHT INSIDE ALL OF US, IN YOUR HEART, ITS WHAT MAKES YOU DO THE RIGHT THINGS IN LIFE AND TO HELP YOUR FELLOW MEN AND WOMEN, YET 90% OF PEOPLE I SEE BELONG TO ANY RELIGION OR WEAR LITTLE TRINKETS FROM THIER NECKS ARE THE BIGEST LIARS CHEATERS, STEALERS, BEGGERS, RAPISTS, MURDERS, ECT,, WHY IS THAT, CAUSE THEY ALL THINK THEY CAN DO EVIL AND THIER GODS WILL SAVE THEM HAHAHAHAH AWESOME!!!!!!!!! seriously, how many people do you think are wearing gold crosses , stag horns, star of davids, or gripping little books with dear life while they waste away in a jail/prison,,, hahah id bet 99% of people in all jails arround the world, you can keep your religions, THEY ARE FILTH and a blight on this beautiful planet

  18. Missing the point
    I think that alot of the people posting here are missing big points regarding this issue and related issues. First you have a bunch of people (who go by many names and orginizations, but we know who you are) who pushed the emigration agenda so hard on the Europeans until they surrendered and accepted it . Now the same people who brought in the poor muslims who are just looking for a better life are trying to stir up trouble between the natives of Europe and the Muslim imigrants. It’s classic divide and conquer. What worries me are some of the comments being posted by the people here, it shows a lack of CRITICAL THINKING and indepth analysis of the situation from all available angles. But the media has successfully divided the people into two camps again, those who are for and those who are against. Once again polirization of opinion has succeeded and this eliminates any room for rational discussion. Thanks!

    1. no we get it!
      Most get it but they don’t pay attention to it,they just go along to get along. But I say don’t try to make me live by any rules I did not write my self!or are self evident Don’t sell me shit cause I’m not buying it!

      “Arm chair warrior’s often fail, we’ve been poisoned by these, FAIRY TALES! The lawyers dwell on small details, since daddy had to lie!”
      Don Henley.

      Not for nothing, but how many agents for the status quo are posting here?

      Any way, we can, those who have a brain and heart/soul, self Govern so KMA! Die free or live a slave I’d rather die FREE!

  19. the end of religion
    i have invented a new socio-economic system:

    the new human socio-economic system

    it is based on the truths of the universe and the essential desires of all humans…and respect (a new, broader definition of respect)
    there will be no single leaders.

    military, religion and capitalism are the tools of kings

    christianity, judaism, and islam are all severely and inherently intolerant! anyone devoting themselves to these religions are required to be intolerant! and they stand in the way of respect.

    after at least 6000 years of being ruled by kings with their intolerant religions and military, the time has come to peacefully transform them…and put an end to them!

    we can begin with children…saving them from religion. any religion! and yet allowing them to form their own individual concepts of what may exist in the unlimited universe. (the whole point of religion is to force all people into thinking the same…it is not individual in any way)

  20. minarets and crusades and obnoxious thoughts
    what a load of twaddle majority of bloggers have wrote here!!
    sick people can only waffle sick ideas, like calling for the 5th crusade, the crusaders were thieves and robbers from europe who even sacked the CHRISTIAN CITY OF CONSTANTINOPLE by killing,murdering,raping everyone there and looting to their hearts content, NO MUSLIMS DID THIS!

    THESE SAME SICK CRUSADERS KILLED JEWS,CHRISTIANS AND MUSLIMS, BABIES AND ALL for they sick fetishes and you bastards want this to happen again??? like you are doing in iraq and afghanistan?

    as a muslim my faith is important to me not a minaret, but what i am worried about is that you sicko,s will decide next time what we wear as you have suggested, what we learn and teach and possibly eat or drink too and possibly where we can crap!

    generally, your ideas have been antimuslim to say the least as this site reveals, if what you been saying is true , you nutters should tell on this blog why there are 14 million Arab christians after 1430 years in muslim lands and why we have not killed them and the millions of jews?? according to you dossers we have nothing better to do then chase an infidel for his head!

    any muslim reading this should not be ashamed in anyway for his faith,culture, or traditions, these sicko,s need to look at their own history and apologise to the world for what they and they forefathers have done to all races in exactly the same mode of thought initially they are trying against us presently!

    it is very apparent in the blogs here that most of the writers are zionist jews hiding behind a christian facade to vomit their hatred against the muslims as per they pernicious devilish nature and to keep the world occupied while they are doing more and worse then the nazi,s ever did in israel!

    it is also worth noting that majority of western politicians stoking fear and hatred against muslims are zionist jews like geert wilders and his kind acting as saviours of europe while they rob it blind and yet can see no excess of their henchmen against muslims in the holy land!

    before any sicko writes back vomit, i just like to say i am for throwing all christians out of muslim lands and jews and allowing you bastards to send back our muslims after which we will never allow any form of trade, travel, or interaction with your countrys or people until you come back to the civilised world of living and let living!!!!

    1. Good one, abubaqar. did you read this article first before you came in here and parroted it?

      How to debate a muslim ([url]http://sheikyermami.com/2009/06/16/how-to-debate-a-muslim/[/url])
      [quote]When trying to debate with Muhammed worshipers you will end up frustrated and exasperated: Muhammedans are masters of a technique called ‘turnspeak’- they use Tu Quoque (’you do it too-arguments) ‘accuse the accuser’- they employ kitman & taqiyya (lies & deception and dissimulation) they deflect away from the subject matter to avoid getting nailed on the unpleasant things like the atrocities, the rape, the plunder, slavery and child-molesting of the ‘profit’ Mohammed and his companions. Inevitably, if you know your stuff-, you will be cursed, they will threaten to kill you and tell you that you will go to hell for questioning their belief-system.[/quote]
      [quote]1. First of all, muslims will say, ”you are ignorant, you are a hypocrite, this is false information, this is a lie”, and, when it comes to Islamic terrorism: “get over it…”
      Whatever you say is wrong and whatever they say is only right.

      2. Next step is Taqqiya. i.e. “Islam means peace”, “Islam was not spread by sword but love”, “No compulsion in religion”,

      3. If you quote from Koran or hadith, you will be accused of quoting verses in bits and pieces, or they claim ”suicide bombing is not allowed in Islam, there is nothing in the Koran…blah blah” or “FGM is un-Islamic” when it is in fact the Muslims who insist on such barbaric practices because of a vague hadith.

      4. Be prepared for accusation that the verses you quoted are “twisted and out of context.” (an infidel cannot possibly understand Islam, but all’s well if you, no matter how foolish or ignorant, accept Islam…)

      5. If you provide reference to your quote, then muslims will say “All your references are false and lies”, which implies only their references are true and correct.

      6. You will be advised to “Read the koran first and you will see the light”

      7. If you say you have already read it then they will doubt you as if you are a liar.

      8. If you quote full verses (not bits & pieces) from koran and hadith, your translation is incorrect / misleading. Then you will be advised to learn Arabic and read the the original version.

      9. If you say, I read the same Koran with most authentic translations, which muslims are referring to, then you will be asked “Did you read only the cover?”, “Read it with open mind”

      (Read with closed mind, like a muslim reads by keeping their brains aside)

      10. Besides your reading of the translated Koran or even though you know Arabic, if you quote from the Koran, they quote hadith, tafseer etc, but if you quote hadith, then they will say “Only Koran is authentic”.

      11. Deflection: After all this, if you are still willing to continue, they will distract you and other readers from the original issue/topic and feed you with plenty of irrelevant issues.

      12. If you are still sticking to the original issue, Muslims will attack other religions’ scriptures like the Bible, Torah, Vedas, Geeta etc and bring up events like global warming, world poverty, the KKK or ‘Tim McVeigh”, Iraq, Lebanon, Palestine etc.

      13. Be prepared for one or more muslims to showing their way of convincing, such as Copy & paste stuff or reference from crap Islamic sites. This includes verses from Koran & hadith, twisted facts from non islamic holy scriptures (like mohammads coming) prophesized in all of them or that the Jews (or Christians) have falsified their scriptures to deny Muhammad his rightful place as “the last prophet.”

      14. In this context, one or more muslims will write about Miracles in the Koran or ‘koranic science’. Remember that whatever is discovered in recent time, Muslims will attribute it to Koran, but they will keep quite till it is discovered. They will never talk about the fallacies in the Koran like the “Sky is a dome on imaginary pillars”, “ the Sun sets in a muddy pond”, “the sun is revolving around the earth” etc. If you draw their attention to these fallacies, they will copy and paste crap again which is totally illogical and irrational. You will be again advised to read Koran.

      15. You are about to loose your patience but still continuing, then comes personal attacks. You will be abused as fool, stupid, idiot, pig, dog etc. (in my case a Zionist, a label I wear with pride…)

      16. If that does not work, then there will be accusations of taking money for your criticism of islam. You may get this also “Western media is biased, its propaganda to defame islam, Islam is wronged by all non muslims” etc.

      17. If you don’t stop there, then muslims will run for your mother and sister.

      18. If you are stubborn and still want to continue, you will be cursed like “Burn in hell, you will repent on judgement day, still time to seek the truth” etc

      19. Towards the end, when all of the above has failed, you will be threatened directly like, “beware, watch it, keep cool, my sincere advice” or indirectly like “Give me your email id, don’t hide behind a false name, you are a coward (since you have a false id on the net), Then you might get an invitation to go to debate one to one or visit mosques or Islamic centers like Islamic Research Foundation in person” etc.[/quote]

    2. Sicko, writing back vomit
      “before any sicko writes back vomit, i just like to say i am for throwing all christians out of muslim lands and jews and allowing you bastards to send back our muslims after which we will never allow any form of trade, travel, or interaction with your countrys or people until you come back to the civilised world of living and let living!!!!”

      Islam doesn’t live & let live at all. As a muslim you’re an awesome hypocrite for saying something like that. Okay.You can prove your sincerity by leaving. Take a few muslims with you. Spare them the horrors of freedom in the evil secular west. Lead them back to the barbaric medieval dictatorships Islam creates. Tell the muslim world how terrible it is over here so they’ll stop flooding out of Islamic countries like rats from a sinking ship.

      You’re right about all the anti-muslims here.Being ant-oppression, anti-murder, & anti-child rape naturally makes us anti-muslim. So what? You’re anti-West. If you don’t like it, leave.

  21. Synagogues should no longer be allowed expansion,Due to Muslim nations not respecting Christians .
    If we do not stand up we will be run over by a bus.
    3 cheers for the Swiss people the vanguard of freedom .
    pack their bags and send them packing if they do not want to
    stop killing Christians.
    They have the right to practice their religion but no extending privileges until such time that Christians are no longer slaughtered and degraded in Muslim countries.
    We have let pass many different peoples into our country and did not have any problem. These Muslims are another matter they do not respect others .
    Np respect = no respect back

  22. Laura is an IDIOT
    Laura is an IDIOT

  23. Ironic when Swiss cities are packed with BANK buildings, corrupt zionist temples towering over every cathedral. If every bank building were levelled first, maybe the minaret ban would make sense.

  24. Immigrants, legal or illegal, need to assimilate and obey the laws & customs in the country they migrate to. If their aim is to raise their own population so they can implement sharia & get into positions of power then, the natives of that country absolutely have the right to protect their country against such an invasion & deception. If having tighter immigration controls or even stopping immigration from specific invaders is necessary then, so be it.

    Native citizens who commit crimes have to go to court & possibly jail.

    “Tolerance of intolerance is cowardice”
    – Hirsi Ali

    “Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil”
    – Thomas Mann

  25. Karma
    If a guest is invited into your house and his aim is to destroy the harmony of that home by ignoring and trampling on the culture and the customs of the people in it.

    It becomes the karma of the guest to be excluded from that house and other houses in the future.

  26. minarets and muslims/european knickers in a twist
    the most amazing point on this blog is that the most heinous crimes are being committed against muslims by all european countrys and they countrys invaded with millions killed plus resources stolen…….. and yet the muslim is the bogeyman?????
    the muslim is a terrorist ! even though we are being terroized!
    international law is being broken in every sphere in regard to justice made by your kind and even to that you not adhere to it when it suits you!!!

    you torture indiscriminately,murder,kill, rape and then have the nerve to call it bringing freedom to the muslims???

    your kind kidnap innocents and hide them for torture , waterboarding on false charges, and sodomizing prisoners and you call it the law for muslims?

    in pakistan the americans forces have killed 16 so called taliban and yet over 800 innocents have died in that endeavour and you are telling us this is freedom???

    i believe that i do not need to tell you where you can stick this freedom!!

    i want justice for the innocents murdered by your kind of perverts and perhaps resort to law , like waterboarding, which your politicians(mostly zionist jews) advocate for muslims.

    also i would like some american clever dick to tell us poor brainless muslims(as you call us) which muslim superman destroyed wtc 7 ?
    i mean the jew silverstein said on tape “to pull the building” and it was destroyed within 8 seconds????

    which muslim superman placed any explosives in that building within a few seconds so that it could be destroyed by silverstein within those 8 seconds?…………….. or could it be the unthinkable, god forbid, those explosives were already there placed by your kind of xtians and jews and other shitheads so that blame could be apportioned on muslims???

    an honest answer would be most welcome considering no plane hit that building neither was any fire a risk to that building!

    if perhaps, especially the christians were to get their head out of they arse and see the reality of who is causing this demonization of muslims by acts of violence , murder, and terror you would see that it is not muslims but those who act as victims in europe and america and the most foremost agents of the devil in israel called zionist jews, their behaviour is plain to see towards palestinians and yet your kind have no words to these atrocitys being done in your name which are an affront to any decent civilized human being!!!

    but in the end you vomit lies against us because we are muslims, ragheads as some arsehole called us, his kind called black people niggers. muslims are not a threat to anyone, like all communitys we have bad apples, but those bad apples are not followers of islam except in name only!

    peace to all decent and honest human beings of any faith who wish to live and let live!

  27. fuck the Muslims.
    😡
    Hey. do you want these assholes living in your country ?
    Why not just…. Or, send them back to Iran. Iraq. Who the fuck do they think they are? they will distroy your country. they will take over your government. They are so nice, that they will tell you anything you want to hear. These fuckers will do nothing but try and kill you. Fuck them. and if they don’t like it, then get the fuck out of my country. Ass holes. … scum bags, that they are. 🙁

  28. Stop Building Synagogues
    Good move from the Swiss. NOw let us get moving with a ban on building any more Synagogues in Europe. And while you are at it a ban on the thousands of Khazar (fake Jews from Southern Ukraine who claim the Holy Lands) collecting any money for their death machine in the Middle East.

  29. LOL, Acharya, I see this abubaqar guy has hit pretty much every point in that “How to debate a Muslim ([url]http://sheikyermami.com/2009/06/16/how-to-debate-a-muslim/[/url])” article you posted. :zzz

    [quote]When trying to debate with Muhammed worshipers you will end up frustrated and exasperated: Muhammedans are masters of a technique called ‘turnspeak’- they use Tu Quoque (’you do it too-arguments) ‘accuse the accuser’- they employ kitman & taqiyya (lies & deception and dissimulation) they deflect away from the subject matter to avoid getting nailed on the unpleasant things like the atrocities, the rape, the plunder, slavery and child-molesting of the ‘profit’ Mohammed and his companions. Inevitably, if you know your stuff-, you will be cursed, they will threaten to kill you and tell you that you will go to hell for questioning their belief-system.[/quote]
    [quote]1. First of all, muslims will say, ”you are ignorant, you are a hypocrite, this is false information, this is a lie”, and, when it comes to Islamic terrorism: “get over it…”
    Whatever you say is wrong and whatever they say is only right.

    2. Next step is Taqqiya. i.e. “Islam means peace”, “Islam was not spread by sword but love”, “No compulsion in religion”,

    3. If you quote from Koran or hadith, you will be accused of quoting verses in bits and pieces, or they claim ”suicide bombing is not allowed in Islam, there is nothing in the Koran…blah blah” or “FGM is un-Islamic” when it is in fact the Muslims who insist on such barbaric practices because of a vague hadith.

    4. Be prepared for accusation that the verses you quoted are “twisted and out of context.” (an infidel cannot possibly understand Islam, but all’s well if you, no matter how foolish or ignorant, accept Islam…)

    5. If you provide reference to your quote, then muslims will say “All your references are false and lies”, which implies only their references are true and correct.

    6. You will be advised to “Read the koran first and you will see the light”

    7. If you say you have already read it then they will doubt you as if you are a liar.

    8. If you quote full verses (not bits & pieces) from koran and hadith, your translation is incorrect / misleading. Then you will be advised to learn Arabic and read the the original version.

    9. If you say, I read the same Koran with most authentic translations, which muslims are referring to, then you will be asked “Did you read only the cover?”, “Read it with open mind”

    (Read with closed mind, like a muslim reads by keeping their brains aside)

    10. Besides your reading of the translated Koran or even though you know Arabic, if you quote from the Koran, they quote hadith, tafseer etc, but if you quote hadith, then they will say “Only Koran is authentic”.

    11. Deflection: After all this, if you are still willing to continue, they will distract you and other readers from the original issue/topic and feed you with plenty of irrelevant issues.

    12. If you are still sticking to the original issue, Muslims will attack other religions’ scriptures like the Bible, Torah, Vedas, Geeta etc and bring up events like global warming, world poverty, the KKK or ‘Tim McVeigh”, Iraq, Lebanon, Palestine etc.

    13. Be prepared for one or more muslims to showing their way of convincing, such as Copy & paste stuff or reference from crap Islamic sites. This includes verses from Koran & hadith, twisted facts from non islamic holy scriptures (like mohammads coming) prophesized in all of them or that the Jews (or Christians) have falsified their scriptures to deny Muhammad his rightful place as “the last prophet.”

    14. In this context, one or more muslims will write about Miracles in the Koran or ‘koranic science’. Remember that whatever is discovered in recent time, Muslims will attribute it to Koran, but they will keep quite till it is discovered. They will never talk about the fallacies in the Koran like the “Sky is a dome on imaginary pillars”, “ the Sun sets in a muddy pond”, “the sun is revolving around the earth” etc. If you draw their attention to these fallacies, they will copy and paste crap again which is totally illogical and irrational. You will be again advised to read Koran.

    15. You are about to loose your patience but still continuing, then comes personal attacks. You will be abused as fool, stupid, idiot, pig, dog etc. (in my case a Zionist, a label I wear with pride…)

    16. If that does not work, then there will be accusations of taking money for your criticism of islam. You may get this also “Western media is biased, its propaganda to defame islam, Islam is wronged by all non muslims” etc.

    17. If you don’t stop there, then muslims will run for your mother and sister.

    18. If you are stubborn and still want to continue, you will be cursed like “Burn in hell, you will repent on judgement day, still time to seek the truth” etc

    19. Towards the end, when all of the above has failed, you will be threatened directly like, “beware, watch it, keep cool, my sincere advice” or indirectly like “Give me your email id, don’t hide behind a false name, you are a coward (since you have a false id on the net), Then you might get an invitation to go to debate one to one or visit mosques or Islamic centers like Islamic Research Foundation in person” etc.[/quote]

  30. …And one more thing (for now), abubaqar, who are you to be calling anyone sicko? You defend an illiterate, mass-murdering, child-rapist as a “perfect man”. You & muslim apologists in general elevate hypocrisy to the level of the sublime. But don’t let anything I say bother you too much. Anyone that disagrees with you is probably a Zionist Jew, right?

  31. misquotes?????
    lmao, or whoever you are. i would love to debate with you or any other nutter anywhere publicly so that perhaps your false perceptions between your ears and beliefs about us could be corrected. most of the rubbish you claim is totally untrue as is proven by history and present reality of the world.

    as you claim you are debating with us muslims tell us the answers to the valid points i have raised regarding your peoples behaviours from history to present!

    if anyone wishes to debate on the koran,hadith,the prophets lifes or any other aspect IN A PUBLIC SETTING i would welcome that for better relationships, understandings between communities or belief sysytems. islam does not allow us to force religion down your throat as you claim and what your kind have done through the ages in history, inquisition was one aspect of that only!

    when bastards are telling me that you want to throw us muslims out of your western paradise, again i say please do so!!!

    i am only telling you sickos that we will go back to our countrys and kick out all non muslims and debar muslims from any form of contact with your race,religion, countrys ,people etc……… this is what you sickos want so if i had this power i would do it for you! and all you come back with is pack your bags and leave???

    as for cursing you for your belief i have never done so, i do not care a toss about your faith or what you wish to believe, i am challenging your false representation of us muslims for demonization purposes and other issues you claim as right but are wrong which i am trying to clarify as best as i can in the interests of harmony.

    make a law to kick muslims out of europe and u.s.a and canada i have no objection and then see our reaction to your action– simple as that!

    but i know there are good xtians and jews and others who wish to live in peace with us, unlike you europeans and western crap we muslims gave sanctuary to jews and persecuted christians for more then a 1000 years while only 60 years ago your race were shoving jews in the oven in europe as they claim!

    for all concerned, islam is not going away due to our weakness,s or your attempts to destroy it. there is a standing prophecy in the koran that this religion will supersede all religions, IT IS ALLAH WHO HAS SENT HIS MESSENGER WITH THE RELIGION OF TRUTH, SO THAT IT MAY SUPERSEDE AND OVERCOME ALL OTHER RELIGIONS EVEN THOUGH THE PAGANS ARE AVERSE TO THIS , ALLAH IS A WITNESS TO THIS FACT!

    now you plonkers will write that we muslims will force it down your throat no doubt ,when this is not the case, you choose whatever you wish to believe or not believe but even your scholars are telling you that within the next 25 years islam will be no 1 faith of the world and if taken in context of christianity currently no 1 faith which came 600 years before us , where will we muslims be in 50, 100, 300, 500 years time????

    the obvious is staring you in the face,because Allah says he will make it happen and he sent the messenger of truth!

    prove us wrong on this point anyone of you cretins reading this.

    finally, you have raised so many red herrings here that i can not do justice to them all, especially being called a zionist etc. the worst two kinds of people in the world are zionist jews and zionist hindus, both are antihuman and anti their own people if you read they scriptures.
    for a zionist we only have to see them at work in israel against innocent palestinians, and for a hindu zionists work, i went to give charity to their victims in gujarat in india where they killed over 10,000 people including women and children by burning them alive just like the christian missionary and his 2 kids few years back and in rioting in orissa against christians where hundreds of churches were burnt and more then 200,00 people were made homeless by these misfits of the human race.
    a muslim can never make peace with a jew zionist or a hindu zionist they are totally our enemies and must be treated as such being the antihuman refuse that they are.period!

    1. Just here to make a really basic point here…pointing out that non-muslims do bad things isn’t an excuse or defense of Koran-justified muslim oppression or violence. Muslim apologists always do this. Even after you repeatedly call them on it, they still persist in pointing out all the non-muslim evil in the world (& try to associate you with it), assuming that it gets their own actions & Koranic verses off the hook. But they somehow can’t bring themselves to get outraged about the routine brutalities & atrocities Islamic culture supports. It’s only evil when the infidel do it, you see. They’re muslims first & humans second.

      Isam (& many other religions as well) is institutionalized oppression, intolerance, slavery, & hatred of the outsider. That is my objection to it. Abubaqar, your words here show you to be another fine product of this tradition. If you want to be an Islamic seperatist, go ahead. If you hate the west so much, leave.The fact that you stay here while spewing anti-western hate praising the Islamic world makes you look like an insincere hypocrite.

  32. abubaqar – misquotes?

    4. Be prepared for accusation that the verses you quoted are “twisted and out of context.” (an infidel cannot possibly understand Islam, but all’s well if you, no matter how foolish or ignorant, accept Islam…)

    You have committed several of the points outlined in the link http://sheikyermami.com/2009/06/16/how-to-debate-a-muslim/ ([url]How to debate a Muslim[/url])

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2004/12/ibn-warraq-on-how-to-debate-a-muslim-part-i.html ([url]How to debate a Muslim part 1[/url])

    http://www.islam-watch.org/AyeshaAhmed/debate-frustrate-infidels.htm ([url]How to Debate and Frustrate Infidels by Ayesha Ahmed[/url])

    Keep in mind that it is an utter waste of time attempting to debate with pathological liars. Your just have to ignore them &/or make a website such as the one above.

    😀

  33. jeff hansen, just by your false claim about the prophet is sick, because i covered this area in a last discussion with acharya.

    you sickos, gave a view point and so did we muslims, you can accept it or reject it, thats your privilege, history does not approve of your claim against the prophet mohammed! even the non muslims like yourself attested to his honour from his time period.

    as you claim he was a mass murderer, please do the readers of this blog a favour and ME give us ONE place in history where this mass murder took place by the prophet mohammed????

    i am all eyes and ears waiting patiently for your answer, please make sure it is factual,checkable, and verifiable considering the prophet NEVER killed anyone in his life!

    because he used to say that he was sent as a mercy to mankind not to kill!

    1. More lies from abubaqar, fulfilling step 2:

      2. Next step is Taqqiya. i.e. “Islam means peace”, “Islam was not spread by sword but love”, “No compulsion in religion”,

      [quote]In 627, when the Quraysh and their allies besieged the city in the Battle of the Trench, the Qurayza entered into (eventually inconclusive) negotiations with the besiegers.[8] Subsequently, the tribe was charged with treason and besieged by the Muslims commanded by Muhammad.[9][10] The Banu Qurayza eventually surrendered and all the men, apart from a few who converted to Islam, were beheaded, while the women and children were enslaved.[/quote]
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banu_Qurayza

  34. Mr Hansen wrote

    A simple hard line drawn in the sand will do. Make becoming Swiss, American, Danish,ect a condition of emigrating. As in: learn the language, history, laws, & values of the nation. Meet the existing people & culture more than halfway or stay out This isn’t rocket science, or even new. America did this for most of it’s history.

    Are you claiming “America” met any of their native people and their culture half way. America as we know it today has destroyed the native ways. Now we are witnessing the destruction of the people and modern culture of America by a few zealots in places of power, all based on lies, all marching to the tune of the so called New World (Dis) Order. Why not mention this rather than harp on about the extremely unlikely threat of Islamic takeovers. America is under siege, but from its own leaders. I suspect you may have an agenda that is in line with those few zealots stalking the corridors of power.

    More love and less hate will heal the world. It is the only thing that can.

    1. You mean the Native Americans getting wiped out? You won’t hear me supporting that sort of genocide. It’s what strong peoples have always done to the weak, even to this day, & it’s wrong. All nations that exist got here at the expense of former occupants. Ugly fact of history & an ugly aspect of humanity in general.

      And I hope you weren’t trying to typecast me as some sinister “neo-con” or “Zionist” or whatever because I object to muslims trying to enact sharia law in western nations, attacking free speech, & generally throwing an anti-west tantrum while living at the huge expense of the native people. The PC weakness in those “corridors of power” is part of the problem. If you look at the demographic situation in Europe, you’ll see that theIslamic takeover scenario isn’t unlikely at all. The Islamists brag about this.

      My point was that once this nation became established, it made emigrants become Americans instead of forcing natives to accomodate them. Basic stuff. I wouldn’t allow smoking or flea-ridden dogs in my home just because a potential houseguest insists on them.. They would check those things at the door or be disinvited. I have a duty to those living under my roof first, before any prospective guests.

      As for my not mentioning the new world order & all the damage it’s doing, I really have no clue what that is & it wasn’t the topic at hand here. Neither was rampant political corruption. Islam spreading in Europe & it’s aggressive attempts to islamify the west was.

      “More love and less hate will heal the world. It is the only thing that can.” Yes. But first we need to be free to safely put that into practice. Here’s to hoping, though.

      1. Mr Hansen wrote

        “More love and less hate will heal the world. It is the only thing that can.” Yes. But first we need to be free to safely put that into practice. Here’s to hoping, though.

        My dear, we are free to do just that, right now! If you do not wish to join those spreading joy in the world then so be it. That is your choice. We do not need permission or some act to be passed by government. We can do it for ourselves – and it is the most empowering thing in the universe, able to dissolve all sorts of grief. At their core, people all over the world recognise this, and I believe it will form the biggest revolution mankind has ever seen.

        So yes, continue with your messages of hate. They carry no real power when highlighted by universal and unconditional love, and it is just this that I am promoting.

        1. “So yes, continue with your messages of hate. They carry no real power when highlighted by universal and unconditional love, and it is just this that I am promoting. “

          Standing against oppressive, intolerant, enslaving ideologies isn’t hate. Sorry if I don’t feel peace & love welling up in me when confronted with the barbaric horrors of fanatical Islam.

          I’m sorry my indignation offends you, but I feel kinda’ strongly about things like women being beaten, enslaved, & forced into marriage as children. I’m not keen on seeing people’s freedoms of thought & expression being taken. I don’t like public whippings & beheadings or female rape victims being punished instead of the rapists. I’m sorry they don’t offend you more than my passionately condemning them

          Such types have nothing but contempt for sentiments such as yours. They see such kindness for weakness & the weak don’t fare so well anywhere they’re in charge. You don’t successfully resist them by love & surrender. We can see how the French approach has been working so far.

          Delicate flowers like you don’t blossom much in places like Saudi Arabia. You have to know that. And we can’t depend on sensitive types like you to take a firm stand against such things, can we? I want a world where people like you are allowed to exist.

  35. “as you claim he was a mass murderer, please do the readers of this blog a favour and ME give us ONE place in history where this mass murder took place by the prophet mohammed????

    i am all eyes and ears waiting patiently for your answer, please make sure it is factual,checkable, and verifiable considering the prophet NEVER killed anyone in his life!…because he used to say that he was sent as a mercy to mankind not to kill!

    You’re either a boldfaced liar or don’t know your own scripture & have no business discussing them. Here we go…

    Koran -Surah33:26 – “And those of the People of the Book who aided them – Allah did take them down from their strongholds and cast terror into their hearts. (So that) some ye slew, and some ye made prisoners”.

    Sirat A Rasul Ch 18 – “The apostle of Allah imprisoned the Qurayza in Medina while trenches were dug in the market‑place. Then he sent for the men and had their heads struck off so that they fell in the trenches. They were brought out in groups, and among them was Kab, the chief of the tribe. In number, they amounted to six or seven hundred, although some state it to have been eight or nine hundred. All were executed. One man turned to his people and said, ‘It matters not! By God’s will, the children of Israel were destined for this massacre!’ Then he seated himself and his head was struck off.”

    I can quote more if you want. And if your own holy books aren’t “factual, checkable, and verifiable” enough for you then they aren’t sufficient evidence for the whole stupid religion either.

    As for Muhammad being a child-raping pedophile, no, you didn’t cover it before exept to throw a tantrum when it was brought up, only to shut up when we started quoting your holy books on it. Here we go again…

    Sahih Bukhari Vol. 7, Book 62, Number 65:
    Narrated ‘Aisha:
    “that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old.”

    Now try & tell me you didn’t know that crap was in your holy books before you shot your mouth off. This stuff is disgusting. And you call me a sicko? THIS freak is Islam’s creator &”perfect man”. This mass-murdering child-rapist is your role model. This is what you defend. How can you be getting up on your soap-box & striking that moralistic pose while defending & emulating this homicidal pedophile freak? Yeah, It’s about time for you to change the subject & try to misdirect again.

  36. Jeff-you’ve earned your paycheck
    I think those “megaphone” posters are spinning this conversation very hard to cover up all the misdeeds comitted by their superiors. There are alot of cases linking secret orginizations and agencies like the CIA and Mossad to those supposed “terrorists” we all hear about so often. Those stories vanish or are downplayed by the media and sometimes completely covered-up.

    There are many people out there who practice logical and rational thinking, especially when you’re facing governmnet and corporate propaganda machines. If you read between the lines, you can see that the “Masters of the Universe” are actually setting a trap for the swiss and they fell for it. Now they are enjoying their “victory” over minerates. But when the right time comes, those same people who encouraged you to do this will turn around and place the blame on you. The same thing that was done to Germany.

    It’s not about minerates of islamization of Europe. Muslims have big numbers in Europe but they have no say over anything. Those people in control are scaring you with Muslims to hand them more and more powers until you’re powerless to stop them.

    My advice to the well intentioned posters here is not to respond to the agent provocateurs, becuase their hate filled attitudes are Contagious and might spoil your good intentions.

    We can talk conspiracies all day long, will that get us anywhere?

    1. “We can talk conspiracies all day long, will that get us anywhere? “

      I agree. Why are you trying? You’re insinuating that I’m some kind of government agent or something. The story we’re posting on is about Islamic/ Western cultural conflict issues. My posts are on this issue. I have strong feelings about the media, government, & corporations too, but they aren’t the topic here. Do you see everyone who opposes the Islamification of the west as some kind of neo-con, CIA operative, or NWO/ ZOG agent?

      1. Dear Jeff

        The story posted here, like most stories about the Islamification of the West, is merely a smokescreen to the wider and more important issues at hand. We can talk incessantly about such matters, but when the world – and your country in particular – is in near melt-down mode, Islam comes fairly low on the priority list of items to address.

        More effort should be made to examine the crises we are now witnessing. Islam (and religion generally) is but a small part of the whole. Let’s ask bigger and more probing questions and get broader, in depth answers.

  37. mohammed pbuh doing massacres?
    jeff hansen. its good that you give this reference because i am aware of it .if i mention now that our muslim history records this or that you will not accept it being bigoted, so i am going to give you references to check out from jewish sources because this tribe which was punished was jewish in origin.

    there is a book by a dr israel welphenson called HISTORY OF THE JEWS AMONG THE ARABS, he mentions that this tribe had entered into a COVENANT WITH THE MUSLIMS , they were allowed freedom of religion, to make treatys as they saw fit with anyone, all that was required of them was that in time of war they were to aid the muslims and not do anything to harm them or the treaty with them. it was the pagans of that time who attacked the muslims at medina with intention to wipe them out totally,NOT MUSLIMS, a defensive war was fought over many days with the digging of a trench (khandaq) when the battle was over and the muslims had won, the prophet retired to his home and was met by the arch angel gabriel who stated that he has been ordered to march against the qurayza tribe for their treachery by god almighty!

    dr welphenson states that this jewish tribe had been aiding the anti muslim forces against the treaty they had signed with the muslims and hence were guilty of treason, TRUE TO THEIR DEVILISH NATURE. due to this guilt factor they sealed themselves in their castles for nearly 25 days even though they were promised security if they opened the doors and come to justice about the affair.

    after 25 days, the castle was taken by muslim forces and everyone captured and brought in front of the messenger of god, mohammed, where he asked them “WHAT DO YOU SEEK OF ME NOW”
    in arrogance their chiefs said we desire that you do not judge us!
    mohammed (pbuh) asked would you accept the judgement of another jewish chief about your affair who has a treaty of peace and security with us? to which they agreed.

    this chief is mentioned by name in our history and he proclaimed to the messenger of god “THAT WE JEWS HAVE ALWAYS WARRED ACCORDING TO GODS LAW WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF NUMBERS, THAT WHEN WE ASSAIL A CITY WE CRY UNTO IT PEACE, AND IF IT SURRENDERS THEN NOTHING OR ANYONE IS HARMED IN IT, HOWEVER, IF THEY REFUSE AND WHEN THE LORD OUR GOD GIVES US VICTORY OVER IT ALL THE MALES OVER 12 YEARS OLD ARE TO BE SMITTEN BY THEIR NECKS, AND THIS IS MY JUDGEMENT”

    accordingly this sentence was carried out proscribed by a jewish chief onto other jews who were guilty of treason which is recorded in dr isreal welphenson,s book. prophet mohammed had nothing to do with it or the judgement!!!
    you can also access the book of numbers in old testament jeff and see it clearly what is written there.
    if the treasonable jews had asked the prophet for mercy i am sure he would have given it, it was their arrogance and hatred which resulted in their death sentence by one of their own kind!

    i hope now that you get your facts right mr jeff and stop accusing wrongly the prophet mohammed, as i have told you he never killed anyone in his life, he never foisted wars of aggression but always defence, him and his followers were always subjected to attacks by pagans of his time, surely even in your bigotry you will have the decency to read up from our muslim sources and non muslim sources history of that period and reach a conclusion amenable to you.

    if its just out of hate you spout venom then really what is the point?

    now again i am asking you, give me a reference in history where the prophet committed mass murder by the thousands as you mentioned???

    should not be hard should it as you seem to know all our history?

    1. Again, slower this time…”Koran -Surah33:26 – “And those of the People of the Book who aided them – Allah did take them down from their strongholds and cast terror into their hearts. (So that) some ye (MUHAMMAD) slew, and some ye (MUHAMMAD) made prisoners”.

      So is your holy Koran lying here or not? Is the Koran the supreme authority for you, or just when it suits your agenda?

      And again, slowly…”Sirat A Rasul Ch 18 – “The apostle of Allah (MUHAMMAD) imprisoned the Qurayza in Medina while trenches were dug in the market‑place. Then he ( MUHAMMAD) sent for the men and had their heads struck off so that they fell in the trenches. They were brought out in groups, and among them was Kab, the chief of the tribe. In number, they amounted to six or seven hundred, although some state it to have been eight or nine hundred. All were executed. One man turned to his people and said, ‘It matters not! By God’s will, the children of Israel were destined for this massacre!’ Then he seated himself and his head was struck off.”

      Your predictable sidetrack rant against the Jews (of course) didn’t manage to change one word of those quotes from your holy books, despite all the noise you made. It still says what it says. You challenged me to show where he murders one single person. I quoted your own holy books depicting him responsible for at least 600. If you want to quote other less holy sources that contradict Islamic scriptures, go ahead. I think they’re full of crap myself & I hope it really didn’t happen. I wish you felt the same way. The world would be a less violent place without such a man being held as a role model.

      As for changing the definitions of words, let’s see what pedophile means. The definition I found says “an adult who is sexually attracted to children”. OK, mabe I was hasty there. Muhammad was more than a pedophile since he actually physically violated a 9 year old child when he was over 50. You obviously see no problem with this as long as other perverts consider them married. You’re having to promote the moral & behavioral standards of barbaric past ages to justify this child-rape. This is disturbing.

      You actually said this:” please tell the readers here jeff that paedophilia is an open act carried out by marriage to a female in front of her family, parents and community!!”

      What kind of sick, warped, disgusting world do you live in? You’re blowing my mind here. You’re on a public website defending pedophilia. The fact that Islam can’t bring itself to see a problem with 50 year old men having sex with 9 year old children really clarifies the demented mindset of your ideology. The whole spectrum of Islamic brutality toward women & outsiders seems a lot less incredible after hearing you sanctamoniously defend child-rape. Thanks for being honest, at least. Now that you’ve defended child-rape, give us another anti-Jew rant.

  38. paedophilia again jeff??
    please tell the readers here jeff that paedophilia is an open act carried out by marriage to a female in front of her family, parents and community!!
    wow that would be a great thing to do, changing the whole meaning of the word to what suits you in the english language!

    give it a rest jeff and others, if the emperor of rome had nothing against the prophet or the pagans of his time then i am very sure that people of your ilk in this time period are airing your own false versions of history to malign him.

    have you ever asked yourself why this marriage happened?

    anyone complain about it? including the female or her family?

    anyone complained about in the then eastern and western world and their respective kings and queens?

    the answer is no jeff, so what happened?

    who has led you to believe this fallacy?

    you find the answers to these questions jeff!

  39. LOL!

    Here’s a picture of Nancy practicing unconditional love with a cuddly polar bear.

    [img]http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/WORLD/europe/04/11/polar.bear.attack/art.polar.bear.jpg[/img]

    What world do you live in?

    1. Brave woman there!

    2. LOL! Isn’t that the woman who jumped into the zoo in order to HUG the bear?

      I saw this comment on another article, and it reminded me of this sort of mentality. As concerns the eroding of British values that is leading to the Islamization of the UK, one poster ([url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/janetdaley/6678686/Home-grown-terrorism-our-values-are-not-optional-for-minority-groups.html[/url]) wrote:

      [quote]The third attack is by the liberals. The liberals of course want everyone to live together in one, big, utopian love bubble. They constantly live with their heads in the sand, unable to understand history, ignorant of life and what goes on around them, believing that their ideology is the best ideology, can’t be beaten, must be tried and followed out, even though it’s been done and failed countless times before. Thus as they batter their ideology into the rest of society, they miss the wood for the trees. They harp on about human rights and remove them. They moan and whinge about loss of liberty and are happily taking it away on a daily basis. They complain about racism, fascism and bigotry, yet alas prove in their machinations they are in fact the racists, the fascists and the bigots. [/quote]
      Indeed, I don’t feel any “unconditional love” in the posts attacking you, Jeff, and smearing you as a “hater.”

      Your responses, by the way, are spot on. Anyone who would defend an ideology that beheads infidels, hangs and stones adulterers, gays and raped women, amputates limbs and all the other Stone Age atrocities is simply a REPROBATE.

      [quote]Reprobate: –noun
      1. a depraved, unprincipled, or wicked person: a drunken reprobate. [/quote]

  40. i am not a stupid man
    jeff , i am not stupid or dumb like you make me out to be!

    you are in your right to believe what you wish of the prophet mohammed, it is your privilege to do so, however, even you in your bigoted mindset cannot provide evidence as to why did all those christians,pagans,jews and animists accepted the message of the prophet after this so called dastardly act by him??????

    people like you can make all the accusations you want about him, the fact is that he did not do what you propound, within the law of his people,his community, in which were all religions no one protested to this act of marriage by him…….. if you have one proof please provide it!

    if he had done any wrong they would have been the first to go against him as they were his contemporarys and they were looking to fault him somehow , so this was an excellent opportunity to do so and yet…. nothing was said,why?

    are you right and they were wrong?

    the koranic verses you quoted above do not mean that the prophet killed those jews himself personally, as stated earlier these traitors were judged by a jewish chief and pronounced guilty of treason as recorded by jewish historians by their own holy book standards!

    so why are you and your kind making the prophet responsible when they refused to be even judged by him? do victors in war give their enemies the right to be judged by who they want? would you give that right to those in jails in america or anywhere else like guantanoma bay?

    the prophet agreed for them to be judged by one of their own jewish chiefs in accordance with they wishes, now that is being magnaminous in chivalry!

    show one example like that in the world in that kind of situation?

    what does your or any country do to citizens who do treason jeff?

    after all we read that your country locked up all japs in 2nd world war in case they were traitors. even though nothing was proved against them!

    and jeff, paedophilia is a hidden act not an open public act which i am sure even your sick mind can accept. you westerners are famous for these acts around the world being the perverts you lot generally are!
    never mind children even men are not safe from you abusers, remember abu ghraib? not to mention the slave trade abuse you lot conducted against innocent african children?

    again and again you have called us muslims liars… to achieve what?

    our history is open and our historical records of the prophet mohammed (pbuh) do you not feel that if we wanted to hide some fact about him which we were ashamed we would have hidden those records?

    lastly, the world over ,the western european is known as “WHITE
    MAN TALK WITH FORKED TONGUE” meaning liars of the most extreme kind with no honour or respect for others or themselves as proven again and again in history!

    besides the false allegation you have mentioned of the killing by jewish chiefs of the jews who did treason against muslims, can you please provide any other reference in history or is that it,? that is the sum of your knowledge?

    you did mention that mohammed killed PERSONALLY thousands of men by his hands and yet you have not proved even one! and now you are interpreting our holy book like a scholar!

    finally in the words of a pagan talking about the messenger of god to the emperor of rome heraclius , he said I HAVE SEEN KINGS, EMPERORS AND PRINCES AND HOLY MEN AND THEIR AUTHORITY, BUT I HAVE NEVER SEEN A MAN LIKE MOHAMMED WHO ORDERS SOME THING AND HIS DISCIPLES JUMP TO IT IMMEDIATELY, HE SPITS AND THEY PICK IT UP AND RUB IT ON THEIR BODIES, HE SPEAKS AND THEY LISTEN AND LEARN THEN RECORD IT FOR POSTERITY IN THEIR MEMORY FOR MANKIND, DARE I SAY THAT NO MAN HAS OBEDIENCE OVER HIS FOLLOWERS LIKE THIS MAN ,WHO WILL LAY DOWN THEY LIFE FOR HIM OR THEIR PARENTS AND DO SO IF REQUIRED, FOR THEY SAY CLEARLY MAY MY MOTHER AND FATHER BE YOUR RANSOM OH PROPHET OF GOD”

    WOULD THESE PEOPLE DO THAT JEFF IF HE WAS A MAN OF BAD MORALS AS YOU CLAIM???

    1. Muslims are hypocrits
      Don’t forget that Islam in effect condones the sodomy of young boys as well.

      YOUNG BOYS: 👿

      Homosexuality was and is widely practiced in Islamic countries. To please the homosexuals among his followers he promised them pre-pubescent boys in Paradise. So after committing plunder, loot, rape and murder in this life, the followers of Islam get “rewarded” by untouched virginal youths who are fresh like pearls.

      The relevant verses from the Koran are:

      Koran 52:24
      Round about them will serve, to them, boys (handsome) as pearls well-guarded.

      Koran 56:17
      Round about them will serve boys of perpetual freshness.

      Koran 76:19
      And round about them will serve boys of perpetual freshness: if thou seest them, thou wouldst think them scattered pearls.

      As an example I am including a poem in ‘Perfumed Garden’ by Abu Nuwas: :woohoo:

      O the joy of sodomy! :confused:
      So now be sodomites, you Arabs. :whistle:
      Turn not away from it– 😉
      therein is wondrous pleasure. 👿
      Take some coy lad with kiss-curls 😡
      twisting on his temple 😯
      and ride as he stands like some gazelle 🙁
      standing to her mate. :-?:
      A lad whom all can see girt with sword 😮
      and belt not like your whore who has :whistle:
      to go veiled. ❗
      Make for smooth-faced boys and do your :silly:
      very best to mount them, for women are 👿
      the mounts of the devils :confused:

      Mikaeel (LOL) in Islamic heaven?

      http://www.nypostonline.com/p/news/national/king_of_pop_creepy_portraits_revealed_pNtYZqjFjzxzgfx8gIU3nK

      Mikaeel converted to Islam …. because of the access to boys in Bahrain.

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/celebritynews/3494296/Michael-Jackson-converts-to-Islam-and-changes-name-to-Mikaeel.html

  41. You’re not making much of a case for for your ideology here. No, I don’t think you’re stupid at all. You’re pretty sharp & articulate. You just have a really weak, vulnerable position to defend. You’re doing a better job than I could in your position. But still…

    “even you in your bigoted mindset cannot provide evidence as to why did all those christians,pagans,jews and animists accepted the message of the prophet after this so called dastardly act by him??????”

    What’s your point? Millions of people adopted Christianity,Hinduism, Communism, Nazism, ect, too. Does that fact convince you of their truth too? If not, why the double-standard? The superstitious, backward people of Muhammad’s times were apt to believe ridiculous things, especially at the point of a sword.

    “people like you can make all the accusations you want about him, the fact is that he did not do what you propound, within the law of his people,his community, in which were all religions no one protested to this act of marriage by him…….. if you have one proof please provide it”

    I’m not impressed by the fact that the people of his time were too backward to condemn such behavior. Knowledge & morality have advanced enourmously since the 7th century. Islam hasn’t seemed to notice this. Your arguement amounts to insisting that the moral standards of 7th century desert tent people should be good enough for us. No thanks, Abubaqar. I think I’ll keep my fourteen centuries of progress.

    “if he had done any wrong they would have been the first to go against him as they were his contemporarys and they were looking to fault him somehow , so this was an excellent opportunity to do so and yet…. nothing was said,why?”

    Plenty died resisting him. And again, you’re appealing to 7th century Arab morality. It’s 2009 for a lot of us.

    “the koranic verses you quoted above do not mean that the prophet killed those jews himself personally, as stated earlier these traitors were judged by a jewish chief and pronounced guilty of treason as recorded by jewish historians by their own holy book standards!”

    Yes, they do. Once more…Koran (the highest authority in Islam?) Surah33:26 – “And those of the People of the Book who aided them – Allah did take them down from their strongholds and cast terror into their hearts. (So that) some ye (MUHAMMAD) slew, and some ye (MUHAMMAD) made prisoners”.

    Despite your previously expressed fanatical hatred of Jews, you’re trying to hold a Jewish historian’s word over the Koran & itself & Islamic biographers in this special case. This makes me smile & shake my head.

    “so why are you and your kind making the prophet responsible when they refused to be even judged by him? do victors in war give their enemies the right to be judged by who they want? would you give that right to those in jails in america or anywhere else like guantanoma bay?the prophet agreed for them to be judged by one of their own jewish chiefs in accordance with they wishes, now that is being magnaminous in chivalry!show one example like that in the world in that kind of situation?what does your or any country do to citizens who do treason jeff?”

    So you’ve gone from insisting that Muhammad wasn’t responsible for any murder…

    “the prophet NEVER killed anyone in his life!…because he used to say that he was sent as a mercy to mankind not to kill!”

    …to excusing & justifying his slaughter at length. Did you forget? If Muhammad really said that he was ” sent as a mercy to mankind not to kill!” then he certainly failed once he had those Jews at his mercy, didn’t he? What else…

    ” after all we read that your country locked up all japs in 2nd world war in case they were traitors. even though nothing was proved against them!”

    You’re using a horrible act of injustice America committed to justify an atrocity Muhammad committed. So lets see…you seem to either agree with what America did to the “japs” or you concede that Muhammad was wrong. Which is it? You’re not really helping yourself here. And it gets worse…

    “and jeff, paedophilia is a hidden act not an open public act which i am sure even your sick mind can accept. you westerners are famous for these acts around the world being the perverts you lot generally are!”

    So it’s okay to screw children as long as it’s done in the open? Do you have kids? Actually, Abubaqar, most westerners hate pedophilia & throw people in prison for it while you can’t seem to bring yourself to even concede that its wrong. And by calling the west perverts for the pedophiles in our midst you finally conceded that Muhammad was a pervert. Guess you missed that too.And it keeps going…

    “never mind children even men are not safe from you abusers, remember abu ghraib? not to mention the slave trade abuse you lot conducted against innocent african children?”

    Still using non-muslim atrocities to excuse muslim ones. I really wasted my time calling you on that many posts ago, didn’t I? The west rather forcefully condemnes slavery & prisoner abuse. Guess you didn’t notice. You see, we actually move foward & become more civilized & ethical as time passes. This allows us to condemn our culture’s past wrongs while Islam continues to defend it’s 7th century morals & atrocities to this very hour. We won’t even get into the Islamic slave trade either. You’d just defend or excuse it & help prove my point.

    “our history is open and our historical records of the prophet mohammed (pbuh) do you not feel that if we wanted to hide some fact about him which we were ashamed we would have hidden those records?”

    Still proving my point. The fact that you not only don’t see a problem with those things, but seek to emulate them is the problem.

    “lastly, the world over ,the western european is known as “WHITE
    MAN TALK WITH FORKED TONGUE” meaning liars of the most extreme kind with no honour or respect for others or themselves as proven again and again in history!”

    Yet here you are squatting in the midst of the west in all it’s decedant horror instead of fleeing to an Islamic paradise like Iran or Saudi Arabia. Kinda’ hurts your credibility there, doesn’t it? I guess our relative freedom & living standards go a long way toward soothing that anti-Jew & anti-white racist hate of yours.

    “besides the false allegation you have mentioned of the killing by jewish chiefs of the jews who did treason against muslims, can you please provide any other reference in history or is that it,? that is the sum of your knowledge? you did mention that mohammed killed PERSONALLY thousands of men by his hands and yet you have not proved even one! and now you are interpreting our holy book like a scholar!”

    No. If the words of the Koran itself & muslim biographers aren’t good enough for you, nothing is. I said hundreds, not thousands, but you said none at all. Then, you tried to justify his killing after denying it when I quoted your scriptures to prove it. You’re still stuck in a loop of illogic & contradiction that baffles me.

    And finally, your grand finale, with your REALLY LOUD CAPS LOCK on…

    “finally in the words of a pagan talking about the messenger of god to the emperor of rome heraclius , he said I HAVE SEEN KINGS, EMPERORS AND PRINCES AND HOLY MEN AND THEIR AUTHORITY, BUT I HAVE NEVER SEEN A MAN LIKE MOHAMMED WHO ORDERS SOME THING AND HIS DISCIPLES JUMP TO IT IMMEDIATELY, HE SPITS AND THEY PICK IT UP AND RUB IT ON THEIR BODIES, HE SPEAKS AND THEY LISTEN AND LEARN THEN RECORD IT FOR POSTERITY IN THEIR MEMORY FOR MANKIND, DARE I SAY THAT NO MAN HAS OBEDIENCE OVER HIS FOLLOWERS LIKE THIS MAN ,WHO WILL LAY DOWN THEY LIFE FOR HIM OR THEIR PARENTS AND DO SO IF REQUIRED, FOR THEY SAY CLEARLY MAY MY MOTHER AND FATHER BE YOUR RANSOM OH PROPHET OF GOD”

    WOULD THESE PEOPLE DO THAT JEFF IF HE WAS A MAN OF BAD MORALS AS YOU CLAIM???”

    Yes, Abubaqar. They would. Substitute the name of Hitler, Stalin, or Genghis Khan for Muhammad’s & I can find you similar praise written by those butcher’s pathetic lackeys too. Stuff like that really impresses you for all the wrong reasons. Go back & consult the 19 point muslim apologists program LMAO! pasted twice earlier & see where you went wrong.

  42. Diversity
    Since some people think that diversity is so great lets diversify Israel, shouldn’t they also experience the “joys” of diversity.
    There are millions of Palestinians that would like to return to their homeland that were forcibly removed (or killed) that were never even compensated for having their property stolen from them.
    That should give you some idea who is behind diversifing western countries, it’s called divide and conquer.

  43. I totally disagree that this issue is any sort of smokescreen. Millions of others do too. My brother, who left the base in Killeen 2 days before Mr Hasan gunned down 12 people while yelling “Allah Akbar” feels this way too. It might not be one of your pet issues (unlike myself), but it is relevant in a big way the world over.

    I do feel that your concern about those other issues in my country being of more immediate concern here is right on, to put it mildly. I’m one of the affected parties & have a big stake in that too. Islam is a greater issue in Europe, but from 9/11 to weeks ago in Killeen it’s been giving us a wake-up call & this makes Europe’s Islam issues significant to us.

    Hopefully we’ll have a story related to those issues you allude to so you can sound off. I’m interested in what you have to say & sense that I’d agree with most of what you have to say. I doubt you care more about ideologies than real people. Thanks again.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published.

*

© 2015 Freethought Nation, Acharya S, D.M. Murdock & Stellar House Publishing
Skysa App Bar