Rhode Island student follows American Founders, gets hate speech, death threats

Bring back the witch burnings! The brouhaha involving Rhode Island high school student Jessica Ahlquist, 16, who requested her school remove a prayer banner invoking ‘”Our Heavenly Father,” serves to illustrate how the ideals of the American Founders have been trampled and corrupted by religious fanatics in this country.

Ahlquist made a simple request to preserve what is called the “separation of Church and State,” based on the “Establishment Clause” of the American Constitution. For her efforts, she’s been viciously attacked with all kinds of insults, hate speech and threats of violence, including death, with a Rhode Island state representative suggesting she’s an “evil little thing.”

However, it is Ahlquist’s Constitutional right to attend a secular public school. If others wish to attend religious schools, there are plenty of those in this country. Our public schools must be kept secular, teaching religion only from a dispassionate and uninvolved perspective. Otherwise, religion must be barred from public schools. No proselytizing, no school prayers – nada.

This Constitutional “wall of separation” was further solidified by a woman named Vashti McCollum, who sued her local school board over religious indoctrination and won, in a Supreme Court ruling in 1948:

Vashti McCollum, a self-described humanist from Champaign, Ill., challenges the practice of allowing students in public schools to attend voluntary religious instruction during school hours, on school property. When her son and other students chose not to attend the classes, they are left to study alone in an empty room. McCollum sues the local school board; her family is subjected to harassment and hate mail; the family cat is lynched. The case reaches the Supreme Court, which rules 8-1 in favor of McCollum, saying the practice of holding religious classes on tax-supported property violates the Establishment Clause.

As Charles Shaynes points out, Ahlquist’s request is in line not only with the American Constitution but also with the wishes of the founder of the State of Rhode Island, Rev. Roger Williams (c. 1603-1683), himself a theologian and “deeply religious Christian minister”:

Rhode Island founder theologian Roger WilliamsJessica may be in the minority in Cranston, but she’s in good company as the latest in a long line of Rhode Island dissenters — beginning with the state’s founder, Roger Williams.

Williams, who was himself verbally attacked, was banished from Massachusetts Bay Colony in 1635 for objecting to the entanglement of religion and government that, he believed, corrupted both.

He founded Rhode Island as the first government in history with no established religion and a commitment to protect liberty of conscience for every person. As a deeply religious Christian minister, Williams vowed to put an end to centuries of oppression and coercion by erecting what he called “a wall or hedge of separation” between the “Garden of the Church and the Wilderness of the World.”

Rhode Island was to be a “haven for the cause of conscience” where government stayed out of religion and all people (including Quakers, Catholics and others persecuted in surrounding colonies) would be free to choose in matters of faith.

If he were alive today, there’s little doubt that Roger Williams would be solidly in Jessica’s corner. He would view the “school prayer” banner as blasphemous state appropriation of religion. However big or small the issue, Williams believed that any state entanglement with religion violates conscience, divides society, and (most important for him) offends God….

“Jessica Ahlquist is clearly an articulate and courageous young woman, who took a brave stand, particularly in light of the hostile response she has received from her community.”

Fortunately, the federal judge in this case – who made the above quote about Ahlquist – saw fit to uphold the Constitution and ruled in her favor. Naturally, the hate speech and death threats have continued to fly.

In the final analysis, the hate speech, death threats and irrational religious fanaticism displayed in Rhode Island could be deemed “un-American” and “anti-American,” as well as illegal and/or immoral. Jessica Ahlquist is the true American in this situation, following the ideals of the American and Rhode Island Founding Fathers.

Moreover, I personally find the idea of a “Heavenly Father” to the exclusion of all other divine concepts, including the “Heavenly Mother” or, perhaps more appropriately, the “Earthly Mother,” to be offensive to my religion. It is a sexist and human-derogating notion that I reject – so, these spewers of hate speech and death threats are offending my religion.

Further Reading

Rhode Island student teaches lesson in religious freedom
Teen atheist Jessica Ahlquist wins prayer lawsuit against high school (VIDEO)
Separation of Religion and State
Please respect my religion!
Islamic indoctrination in American public schools

92 Comments

Add a Comment
  1. I’m glad she won her court case. She should’ve won any way because it was the right thing to do.

    Studies have shown that atheists are the most discriminated against minority:

    A 2006 study at the University of Minnesota showed atheists to be the most distrusted minority among Americans.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination_against_atheists

    Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
    http://www.ffrf.org/fttoday/2006/april/study.php

    America is suppose to have freedom of and FROM religion but, the ‘persecuted Christian’ crowd won’t allow anyone else to have their own views.

    Coming Soon: Atheist Church?

    Atheist Temple: Nonbelievers To Get Place Of ‘Worship’ In UK ([url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/25/atheists-temple_n_1231848.html?ref=religion[/url])

    Book, Religion for Atheists: A Non-believer’s Guide to the Uses of Religion ([url]http://www.amazon.com/Religion-Atheists-Non-believers-Guide-Uses/dp/0307379108[/url]) by Alain de Botton, comes out March 6, 2012.

    LOL, the “Please Respect My Religion” article and video as well as the “Mythicist Position” video should be required viewing.

  2. Thanks for that reminder. You should give these a good going over:

    State Constitutions & Discrimination against atheists ([url]http://freethoughtnation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=391[/url])

    “God Bless America” Response to pass around ([url]http://www.freethoughtnation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1716[/url])

    “Why do Atheists care about Religion?” – VIDEO ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4fQA9mt-Mg[/url])

    Theocracy Watch.org ([url]http://freethoughtnation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=131[/url])

  3. You can’t be serious
    the first amendment provides that congress shall not establish a national religion. the founding fathers did not put the first amendment so that parents can use their children as a pawn along with the aclu to accomplish absolutely nothing. if she is receiving death threats so be it. every action has a reaction. she has put the city of cranston and the state of rhode island in a tailspin. the entire nation is laughing. the cranston police will never be able to keep up and investigate every death threat. my advices to that young lady is don’t be a pawn for your parents who apparently don’t know who to treat children and let them be children. and disband the aclu. it no longer represents the citizens of this nation!

    1. CCook
      First of all, the idea was Jessica’s, not her parents’. Her parents supported her because she was right. If you were Christian, and a Buddhist prayer were hanging on the wall at your child’s secular school, you’d likely be the first to insist that it be taken down. But then, if you were really one to live by Christian ideals, you wouldn’t have said, “if she is receiving death threats so be it.”

      I can certainly understand why Mohandas Gandhi once said, “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”

      As for the ACLU, it was never intended to represent the citizens of this nation, but rather to represent the Constitutional Rights of the citizens of this nation.

      [b]pax vobiscum,
      archaeopteryx[/b]
      http://www.in-His-own-image.com

      1. My Story
        I am sick and tired of “Christians” forcing their way upon everyone else, why are we are forced to allow you to push your beliefs upon us!

        If majority rules when and if this country becomes Muslim then circumstances will be reversed!

        Keep your religion to yourself. Atheists do not tell you to stop believing in your God or your religion and we do not force you not to pray, read your bible or go to your church.

        Nevertheless, the public realm is a neutral area that respects the rights of all!

        I support Jessica she is my hero!

        In addition, here is my story with the right wing religious fanatics!
        I guess they all moved to NJ after leaving NC.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ucVDpmFz-E

        1. not to worry
          We don’t need to worry too much about the dwindling believes of Christian mythology. Polls everywhere agree, that Atheism and Agnostic believes are growing here in the US, and are high in Europe. Finally logical thinking a science are about to prevail, and we will see a decline of discrimination by christians.

    2. re: intentionally deceptive and lacking interpreta
      Wrong, the Establishment Clause states that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion”. That means ANY religion, not restricted only to a national religion as you attempt to imply. It has been proven repeatedly and res judicata that government is specifically disallowed the establishment of any religion in any fashion.

      That is exactly why the Judge ruled in favor of Jessica Alquist, and disallowed this government supported institution from establishing religion in that attempted fashion. The Founding Fathers and Framers of the Constitution wrote the First Amendment specifically to restrict angry misguiding people like you from forcing religion on others using government facility.

      You are also incorrect, Jessica accomplished much that drives the religionists to absolute viturperative derision, as exhibited. She upheld the Constitution, helped put judgment and legal precedent on the books that will be used to further abort religious attempt to pervert the Constition.

      Again you are wrong. Death threats are only a laughing matter to the ilk of religious Inquisitors and Jeffrey Dahmer types. The “entire nation” is not laughing.

      This appears to be beyond your grasp, but the correct way to treat children is to teach them to discern reality by demanding evidential support, and to do exactly what Jessica did.

      And go to court if necessary to correct an obvious wrong, as was proven judicially. And most of all, to not allow the improper attacks of those who hate the upholding of the Constitution disallowing their wrongful religious promulgation, to affect or deter her from doing what is right.

      And actually, no one w/o a deluded brain is lauging about this. But as seen, some are obviously frothing at the mouth about it.

    3. Perputually wrong
      // “the cranston police will never be able to keep up and investigate every death threat.” //

      As w/ every one of your false assertions, completely wrong again. These death threats were made using social media such as Facebook and Twitter. Glad to disappoint you, but that is easily traceable.

      Every criminal hopes and prays like you believe and state that the police will be too busy to investigate or keep up w/ their vile crimes. And that they can get away w/ the felonious assualt of criminal death threats using interstate wires.

      Yet in this case, your sick contention is incorrect. Only a fool would believe any of your benighted confirmation bias.

  4. Jessica Ahliquist
    Hats off to Jessica for waging a single handed battle against the school establishment and winning it.

    Congratulations Jessica and please keep the flag of our American Constitution flying high in America!

  5. I’m in favor of Separation of Church and State bec
    No one is thinking about the revolving door!
    IF, we allow our zealous religious neighbors to force this form of thought onto the books as LAW, that same LAW can be used to come back on us and create either a “United Church of the United States” (can you say Islam) where EVERYONE believes the SAME WAY, or worse yet, the State (in this case the Government) could come back and tell us how to run our churches. We could lose our Tax Exempt Status! We could be subject to all sorts of rules and restrictions on what to say and when! Or even, be OUTLAWED ALL TOGETHER!
    No, the Founders of this Great Country knew what they were doing MUCH better than anyone who is either in church or politics today!
    Just take a look at the world where the line is blurred between religion and state; are you SURE YOU WANT THAT?
    In “HIS” Name! Rev. Ronald G.

    1. Reverend Ron –
      Thanks for stepping up with a fresh viewpoint!

      Actually, your words echo those of John Adams, Founding Father and 2nd President of this country, when he said,
      [quote]"Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other religions, may establish with the [i]same ease[/i], any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other sects?"[/quote]
      ([i]emphasis[/i], mine)

      [b]pax vobiscum,
      archaeopteryx[/b]
      http://www.in-His-own-image.com

    1. Thank you – here is the Preamble you provided:

      [quote]We, the people of the State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, grateful to Almighty God for the civil and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing upon our endeavors to secure and to transmit the same, unimpaired, to succeeding generations, do ordain and establish this Constitution of government.[/quote]
      As I stated in my article, Rhode Island was founded by a devout Christian minister, so this sort of language is to be expected. Obviously, I disagree with the notion of a giant anthropomorphized male god in the sky separate and apart from humanity whom we must address as “He,” “Him” or “His.”

      Moreover, if you are going to read the Preamble, then you must also read Section 3:

      [quote]Section 3. Freedom of religion. — Whereas [b]Almighty God hath created the mind free[/b]; and all attempts to influence it by temporal punishments or burdens, or by civil incapacitations, tend to beget habits of hypocrisy and meanness; and whereas a principal object of our venerable ancestors, in their migration to this country and their settlement of this state, was, as they expressed it, to hold forth a lively experiment that a flourishing civil state may stand and be best maintained with full liberty in religious concernments; [b]we, therefore, declare that no person shall be compelled to frequent or to support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatever[/b], except in fulfillment of such person’s voluntary contract; nor enforced, restrained, molested, or burdened in body or goods; nor disqualified from holding any office; nor otherwise suffer on account of such person’s religious belief; and that [b]every person shall be free to worship God according to the dictates of such person’s conscience[/b], and to profess and by argument to maintain such person’s opinion in matters of religion; and that the same shall in no wise diminish, enlarge, or affect the civil capacity of any person.[/quote]
      My free and God-given mind allows me to perceive of “God” as a universal concept, not a giant man who requires obedience and mental enslavement. Moreover, this section says there shall be no compulsion, which means the public square in not the place to force people to acknowledge a “Heavenly Father.” This section also provides us the freedom to worship God according to the dictates of [i]our [/i]conscience. My conscience tells me that the idea of God as a giant man somewhere “out there” is a cultural artifact, not an ultimate truth. Hence, shoving a giant male god down our throats violates our rights according to this Constitution.

  6. AHLQUIST AND THE JUDGE WERE WRONG
    The provisions of the First Amendment have been leveraged, extended and misinterpreted.

    The First Amendment merely states that Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

    The amendment. like all of those in the Bill of Rights restricts NOONE except Congress. So long as Congress makes no laws to establish or acknowledge a particular reliigion (Christian or otherwise) and makes no laws prohibiting the free exercise of religion, it has done its job and can do nothing else because of its limitations under the 10thAmendment.

    Whoever put up a banner with the words “Heavenly Father” was very likely exercising his or her religion, which the Constitution says Congress may not prohibit. Ahlquist may not LIKE the particular religion involved, and therefore is free to ignore it or to advocate for her own religion which she is also free to exercise.

    Federal judges are supposed to make their rulings based on federal laws and the federal constitution. So long as there is not federal law violating the requirements of the First Amendment, he really has no say in the matter.

    States, on the other hand, are free to establish whatever religion they wish. At the time the Constitution was adopted some states had official state religions and were not required to change that status. I don’t believe it is a good idea for states to have official religions (and none do today) but the Constitution does not prohibit that. The original concept of the United States was (and technically still is) that each state is an individual nation. (That is what “state” means.) Each of the states is free do do anything and have any laws that do not conflict with the federal constitution and maintain a “republican form of government” as the Constitution requires. Congress is only given power over a discrete number of legislative areas (the enumerated powers). Any power NOT enumerated is not given to Congress and the federal government but devolves to the states or the people as provided in the 10th Amendment.

    I am not advocating for a mixing of government and religion, but I am pointing out that the Constitution does not prohibit ANY expression of religion and Congress is not allowed to do so.

    Freedom of religion is like freedom of speech. You can speak freely but no one has to like it, and no one has to listen. You can have a religion (Shinto, Buddhism, Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Wiccan, etc). The federal government is NOT allowed to make any one of those an officially acknowledged religion, but neither is it allowed to restrict anyone from freely exercising that religion.

    If someone’s exercising of his religion involves telling others about it, they are not required to listen, but the telling itself cannot be suppressed unless it reaches the point of disturbing the peace, trespassing or some other activity prohibited by constitutional laws.

    I am not advocating for any religion or religious practice. I am merely pointing out the law and the fact that it has been drasticaly distorted into something that the founding fathers would not even recognize.

    Bob

    1. As stated above, Jefferson, the author of the Establishment Clause, explained it as specifically building a wall of separation between church and state. Your personal interpretation is incorrect, religionists are not allowed to use government facility to enforce expression of their religion on others.

      Such misguided interpretation has been constantly proven wrong when contested judicially. That is why it is AGAINST the law to exercise prayer, promotion and even expression of religion in public schools.

      Not all speech is free. Go yell fire in a crowded theater, and if people are trampled to death, you will discover your speech is not protected. By your logic, people could also post lewd pornography all over the shools, or inciteful racial slurs, and you would only have the choice to ignore it or post your own hate propaganda. ALL speech, including written, is not free. That is a myth.

      There is sound historical reason our government is disallowed establishment of religion in any fashion. And also even the exhibited preference, or denial of such expression outside of government facility.

      But you don’t have to believe me. Go ahead and case test it for yourself. Sue your local public school, and demand that they recognize your interpreation of Constitutional law. Demand that they allow prayer, and expression of your religion enforced on other people’s children that attend that school. You will quickly discover that your interpretation is far from what the Framers intended.

      In fact, the Framers overcame the vast religious majority of the first Constitutional Convention demanding insertion of the same religiious rights in government that you are contending. Paine certainly recognized the dangers exhibited by your demanded religious involvment w/ government disguised as free speech rights.

      But you won’t do that, you don’t really believe what you claim. As proven repeatedly and consistently, the courts have correctly interpreted the purpose of the Establishment Clause to protect us from governmental expressed preference of religion. And even any expression of religion in government facility.

    2. Missing
      // “The federal government is NOT allowed to make any one of those an officially acknowledged religion, but neither is it allowed to restrict anyone from freely exercising that religion.” //

      I think what you are missing here, Bob; is that in this case the government is only disallowing the exercise of religion using government facility. It is not restricting anyone from freely exercising their religion, sans such improper use. The religionists have every right to exercise their religion, they just can’t use government facility to do it.

      Such as public schools. People don’t pay taxes to the government to have other people use the buildings they paid for to enforce exercise of their personal religion on their children in that captive audience setting.

      That is the reason this prayer banner invoking the heavenly father was taken down in accordance w/ Constitutional law. That is not merely expression of opinion. Rather it is statement of absolute fact, that a heavenly father exists. And should be petitioned by prayer.

      There is no credible evidence of any such contention. People do not send their children to public schools to have such ridiculous unsupportable contention stated to them as factual truth at those governmental supported institutions. That is not the purpose of education, which must be based on that which can be supported evidentially as true.

      Religion has no place in our public schools. This has been consistenly supported judicially based on Constitutional law. And religion has no place of any preferntial statement or treatment expressed by any facility of government.

  7. I know how she feels
    All my life I have remained hesitant about expressing how I felt about religion in general. I just kept my mouth shut and let people spout the ridiculous beliefs, well, I did until just recently. I HAD a friend who would send me emails almost daily; most were simply forwarded emails that he got from one of his mindless friends. One day I received an email that ridiculed an atheist and how “April Fools Day” should be the holiday for all atheist. My verbose rebuttal was none to polite as I expressed my right to FREEDOM FROM RELIGION! I haven’t received any more emails and I lived happily ever after.

  8. Thomas Jefferson wrote the 1st Amendment to the US Constitution. The Danbury Baptist Association wrote a letter to Jefferson in 1801 asking him, in short, to explain the Establishment Clause. Jefferson explained it using the phrase: [b]”a wall of separation between church and state.”[/b] The Supreme Court said it was an authoritative declaration and the principle of separation between church and state has stood strong ever since.

    For all the details please read these:

    ‘A Wall of Separation’ ([url]http://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/9806/danbury.html[/url])

    Jefferson’s Letter to the Danbury Baptists ([url]http://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/9806/danpre.html[/url])

    Jefferson’s Wall of Separation Letter ([url]http://www.usconstitution.net/jeffwall.html[/url])

    Separation of church and state ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state[/url])

    So, as one can see, the purpose of the Establishment Clause was certainly to separate church and state. Therefore, it would be a lie to claim otherwise.

  9. Excellent points
    Excellent and indisputable points, Acharya. Legal and moral. I consider young brave outspoken ones such as Jessica Alquist to be true champions and heroes. I am encouraged that the trend of our youth is discernably moving away from benighted unsupportable religious beliefs.

    All and any form and discussion of religion in public schools should only be examined and viewed in regards to it’s anthropological influence and effect, historical and current. No one pays taxes to have the facilities they pay for used to promote and expose the superstitious religions of others on their children.

    Though the millennium dominating Inquisition style of theocratic control has been nearly totally eliminated and disallowed in most advanced countries; religionists are always unceasingly sneaky and conniving in effort to inject their religious effect governmentally. With an arrogance of improperly claimed demand and faux right.

  10. Native Americans know.
    I am Sunarrow, and we Native Americans till this day know all about this kind of stinking thinking. Aho.

  11. Keep up the good fight!
    This is why I support groups like the ACLU, American United for the Separation of Church and State, the Interfaith Alliance and People for the American Way and of course, Acharya S. We have to fight against radical Christians as long as they exist in our country. The fight goes on!

    :woohoo:

  12. It was horrifying to see those hateful comments made by those Christian kids. Anyone who openly threatens to kill or rape a teenage girl and “eat her family” just because she doesn’t believe in some anonymous superbeing is just completely sick and twisted in the head. :-x

    Jessica Alquist is a true hero for standing up for justice and freedom of speech.

  13. Rhode Island Student

    Congrats to the young lady who stood-up for her rights! More people need to do the same, and lately I see more of this insanity of people pushing their religious beliefs on people who know better, then threaten them when they disagree. Will people ever get out of the Dark Ages? :confused:

    1. [i]lately I see more of this insanity of people pushing their religious beliefs on people who know better, then threaten them when they disagree. Will people ever get out of the Dark Ages?[/i]

      Probably not. Especially the people who waste time and money arguing about display banners at school or nativity scenes in a park. Lets see, we’ve allowed our government to push our “religious beliefs” on the middle east and the rest of the world. Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya all heartily resist our “beliefs” in Democracy, our belief that the rest of the world must be run our way, our belief that they’re just ignorant savages who need our guidance and protection. And when they object? We’ll find some small dissident group that agrees with us to attack the “faithless heathens”. With our help.

      But hey, keep up the support for some blond, white kid offended by a banner. While your fathers, sons, daughters etc. continue to slaughter innocents for oil, keep distracting people for the “cause”.

      Note: I grew up in the sixties when nativity scenes were relatively common, prayers at school or sporting events not-commented on, and “Merry Christmas” pretty much universal. Watchtower people were annoying and the Krishna’s at the airports were a pain. So what? You close the door or walk on by. Now we have atheists insisting that their “religious beliefs” have priority and threaten people when they disagree. While many of you deplored the “mental illness” of spiritual believers you ignored that the primary purpose of religion is codes of conduct towards your neighbors. Are all of them good? Probably not. Did they help us get to the point where you can sit in your space and complain about it to the world by pushing buttons. Probably yes.

      1. why the racism?
        // “But hey, keep up the support for some blond, white kid offended by a banner.” //

        Skin color has nothing to do w/ this issue. Injecting racism as your argument is pure failure. And simply because you accuse your government of committing international crimes does not justify forcing your imaginary god religious beliefs on children at public schools.

        Stop being a hypocrite, heed your own preaching. You don’t like what Jessica did…. so what. Ignore it, close your door and walk on by.

        Your type of deluded religious beliefs restricted human and scientific advance for millienium. It is exactly your kind of thinking that ruled the theocratic dark ages. Where people were imprisoned, tortured and murdered as heretics for proving the world is not flat nor geocentric to the universe.

        And your invisble god figment had nothing to do w/ making the buttons you push on your keyboard. Get a clue about reality for a change.

        1. Racism has nothing to do with it….
          [i]Your type of deluded religious beliefs restricted human and scientific advance for millienium. It is exactly your kind of thinking that ruled the theocratic dark ages. Where people were imprisoned, tortured and murdered as heretics for proving the world is not flat nor geocentric to the universe. [/i]

          I have no religious beliefs. I’m not “religious” at all. As a spiritualist I have, personally, experienced contact with non-corporeal beings. Some appeared neutral, some hostile, some beneficial. I do not ascribe their existence as either gods, angels or demons. I do not pray or otherwise attempt to influence how they might interact, I prefer no contact at all.

          The concept YOU have, that all life in the Universe MUST have a physical body, is just as much a belief system as any religion. If for no other reason than having never left this ball of mud for anywhere else. I would also venture to say that you, personally, have never explored the possibility. Since my thoughts are based upon actual experiences [not drug induced, before you go there], there is little belief involved and, again, no religious observation.

          Consider the following:

          [b]”War is always about achieving a political end. Even holy wars seek to impose a secular control over the vanquished. At the root of every political conflict, lies the MONEY component. On the scale of greed or fear, international discords can slide up or down. Depending on the circumstances or demands, governments rally domestic populations to accept their foreign interventionist goals. Claims of altruistic liberation are fictitious, when the rhetoric is stripped away and the real substance is exposed. Notwithstanding, variances of emphasis; the motive of money underpins the movements of all military confrontations.”[/b]

          The Albigensian Crusade of the thirteenth century was instigated by the powerful Pope Innocent III against the Albigensian heretics in southern France. However, it would have been unlikely to have happened WITHOUT the churches guarantees of looting to pay their crusaders. Religion was the excuse for their actions, but the real devil and cause was money. As it is today. Which was the point I was making. As to retarding “scientific advance”, I fear corporations more than “religious” fanatics. GMO’s, chemtrails, drilling in the Gulf, TSA, milk filled with pus because of bgh, war on drugs: if you want a real fear, fear money as god.

          From your lack of response to my full posting, can it be assumed that you have no problem with “While your fathers, sons, daughters etc. continue to slaughter innocents for oil, …” as long as its not done for “religious” reasons?

          As to the “blond white kid offended by a banner”, its seems that the majority of “separationalists” are white. Usually from middle class to upper middle class. Its no more racist to point that out than to state that most drug users in jail are black or Hispanic.

        2. There you go….
          [i]And simply because you accuse your government of committing international crimes ….[/i]

          The US attacked sovereign nations who could not threatened and did not attack us. Wars of unprovoked aggression are international crimes, the wars against Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and, soon, Iran, are reality. If you really were objective, citing facts, the belief in MONEY as god is far more destructive to human minds and souls. But I forgot, as an atheist you only believe in what you can see and feel, which makes materialism your go(d)al. If money is your god, you deserve what your god brings you.

          Further, since faith is an emotional response to the numinous, you probably don’t believe in love, fear, hate, jealousy because they only exist in your mind. You know, the same beliefs shared by serial killers and politicians.

          1. Pathetically laughable
            I’ve yet to meet a racist, whom after their racism is exposed, does not continue to spout the lunacy. Separatists come in all colors, ethnicity and races, see: Simon Dubnow, Charles Truxillo, Uighurs, Jim Jones (who also made claims like yours of spiritual interaction) and Louis Farrakhan, to name just a few examples. I’m only surprised that you didn’t call Jessica a blue eyed devil.

            I’ll repeat, there is no reason or place for you to inject your racism into this issue. Has nothing to do with it whatsoever. It doesn’t matter what color you are, go ahead and test it if you think I’m wrong.

            Go to any public school and demand that they allow you to teach and promote your spiritual religion, talking to ghosts or spirits or whatever it is that you do. You will quickly discover that you are incorrect. Race is not involved in these laws.

            The fullness of your post consisting of your racist comment and your angry emotional tin foil hat conspiriacy theory are entirely irrelevant to the issue of preaching religions like yours in public schools. And nothing more than your diversionary troll spamming.

            Love, fear, hate, jealousy are emotional responses with effects that are measurable by hormonal response. Unlike your imaginary spirits, which I guarantee you cannote evidence in any credible fashion. The mentally ill don’t need drugs to hallucinate. Your revelatory claim is no different than people who swear they talk to fairies and leprechauns.

            Could be your obsession w/ your personal gods of racism and CT have totally deluded your mind. It is blinded ignorance to state a claim as fact like you do, then give absolutely no evidence to support your irrational fantasy assertion.

            Ok Padre, explain the supposed supernatural spiritual experiences you claim. Do you see ghosts and spirits that no one else sees? Do you hear voices in your head that no one else can hear? You obviously have no clue, but such behavior is clinically delusional.

            But I’ll bite, go ahead and tell us your spiritual experiences. No really, I’m interested. I’m open minded, but unlike you, I require actual valid exidence to support assertions, especially the extraordinary unprovable like yours.

            Let us know about these incorporeal, immaterial, intangible, non physical, apparitional, ethereal, subjective, insensible, illusionary, invisible spirits that seem to be tormenting the pain in your brain so. Which you cannot show to exist anywhere outside the imaginations of your delusional mind.

            I’ll wait, but I’m sure you won’t provide any evidential support for your fantasy contentions. You are much too ashamed to even try. That’s easy to see.

      2. Your wondrous ’60’s
        You grew up in the sixties when blacks were denied voting and other civil rights by Jim Crow laws. Women were severely discriminated against economically and every other fashion. Your demented philosophy of “walk on by” is exactly what kept the door closed and allowed such attrocity for centuries.

        Good old boys like you winked and looked the other way as husbands beat their wives as the manly thing to do to keep her in line. What’s next out of you? You want to go back to segregated restaurants, bathrooms and drinking fountains?

  14. Where in the Constitution
    Where in The Constitution for the United States of America, does it say separation of church and state? Which amendmend?

    I bet you will not find this statement or term. “Separation of Church and State”. Because it is not in there, we have been lied to again.

    READ IT FOR YOURSELF.

    1. STRAW MAN. This blog doesn’t say anything like that. It refers to the “ESTABLISHMENT CAUSE” – if you knew about the Constitution, you’d know that.

      And Roger Williams ALSO spoke of the wall of separation in the 17th century – you didn’t read this blog, did you?

      Typical canned response from someone who didn’t even read the article. Not impressive.

  15. I want my rights preserved by the constitution, so I respect her right as well.
    I won’t use religion to hate anyone. Taking down this sign from the school does not change what I believe and affects me in no way. It is between me and the God I believe in and no one can take that away by any means.
    I respect her courage and conviction. When was the last time any of us stood up for what we believe in against such odds? Maybe we could learn from her.

  16. THE TERM, “SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE” IS FOUND NOWHERE IN THE U.S. CONSTITUTION, BUT CONTAINED MERELY IN A LETTER FROM THOMAS JEFFERSON TO Danbury Baptist Association in 1802.

    HOWEVER, THE EXACT TERM, “SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE” CAN BE FOUND IN THE COMMUNIST (SOVIET) CONSTITUTION.

    MARXISTS HATE ALL RELIGION, ESPECIALLY CHRISTIANITY, AND WILL NOT REGARD ANY POWER GREATER THAN THAT THE STATE.

    THEY BELIEVE ALL HUMAN LIFE EXISTS ONLY WITHIN THE CONFINES OF THE DIALECTICAL MATERISIM AND THE CLASS STRUGGLES THAT EMANATE FROM THIS DEAD-END, MATERIALISTIC, POLITICO- PHILOSOPHY. ANYTHING BEYOND THAT SCOPE IS CONSIDERED NON-EXISTENT AND MEANINGLESS.
    ANYTHING THAT DOES NOT PROMOTE CLASS STRUGGLES IS ANTAGONISTIC TO COMMUNISM.

    “PEACE IS THE ELIMINATION OF ALL OPPOSITION TO SOCIALISM”
    AND…..
    SOCIALISM IS INDESPENSIBLE TO THE CAUSE OF COMMUNISM”

    NIKOLI V. LENIN

  17. Christian beliefs…
    I am constantly amazed at the vituperative responses one receives whenever their bizarre beliefs are held up to question. One would think that after hearing hundreds and hundreds of these waspish retorts one would become inured to them. I have not. Each time I hear one, or receive one, I am surprised anew.

    I’ve said many times that if I were a Christian and believed all the tenets of my religion, if I were convinced that in a few years a loving God was going to take me to a place of unimaginable happiness for all eternity, what would I care what other people thought. I would walk around with a rapturous smile on my face all the time. I wouldn’t care what anyone thought or believed or said.

    The fact is that the vast majority of Christians don’t really believe. They rarely ever take the time to look into their beliefs, to study their faith. They have no conception what the Bible said or how Jesus wanted you to act. As Dan Dennett put it “They believe in belief.”

    My daughter is a Baptist and believes simply and lovingly and her religion is a beautiful thing. But to many of these people their beliefs are a license to act out their vilest passions and prejudices. Imagine threatening the life of a young girl over something like this!

    1. Medicine
      Good points. I’ve yet to meet a christian who does not disbelieve much of what the bible says and claims. Their lip service is false, their stated words evidentially disproven by their actual actions.

      ie: The bible exhorts that god has the power to heal any disease and illness. That by jesus’ stripes ye are healed. And that whatsoever ye ask in his name, ye shall receive.

      Yet, when christians get sick, they don’t believe that god can heal them. Instead they go to Doctors to heal and save them. Doctors who practice medicine based on evolution biology.

      They ask for man made prescriptions to make them better. Their actions prove that they are lying when they claim they believe what their god tells them. They depend on man, not their god figment that cannot be shown to exist outside of human imagination.

      They show that what they really believe is, that their god is a deaf mute, whom they cannot depend on to answer their prayers. They depend on men to save them, not their invisible imaginary god concoction.

      When the actual need arises, they exhibit that what they really believe, is that their god is truly impotent to affect any interactions in the physical corporeal material realm. Their actions say, they don’t really believe that crap in their bible.

      1. heavenly virgins
        And really, who wouldn’t volunteer for the dynamite jacket in exchange for the promise of 72 virgins. But if they think about it, what a jip. After they screw 72 times, they gotta go the rest of eternity w/o ever having another virgin. And that’s a dam long time.

        1. Hahahaha…..
          Very funny thought. I have always thought that 72 virgins wasn’t a reward, it’s a punishment. Imagine 72 mothers-in-law! Like the comedian once said, “Give me two fire-breathin’ whores instead!”

  18. It’s kinda similar here in Puerto Rico about religion being shown in public places such as certain government buildings, schools, etc. The irony is that the constitution of Puerto Rico is very clear about separation of church & state. :silly:

  19. Not to worry, because in the life after, ALL those that choose NOT to fear YHVH, trust in His atonement through His original Mashiyach, and walk in the Written Torah will be forever free from His Commands of LOVE.

    I do agree, by the way, that there should be a separation of “church” and state. The majority of the “churches” are anti-Mashiyach and do NOT walk in truth.

    1. not truth
      Your assertions of an after life, fearing yaweh, or even that yaweh exists to love and atone, are not truth in any fashion. There is no evidence that your contentions are not totally false imagination derived of men for purpose of manipulation.

      A mere claim does not justify itself. Merely stating as you do that your wild unsupported concoctions are truth does not make it so. Ok, go ahead and present your evidence that any of what you say is true.

      Remember, revelatory claim is not evidential. In order to be even considered possibly as truth, you must needs provide valid and credible evidence. If you know what that is. That means evidence that is observable, testable and falsifiable. I’ll wait, but I’m sure you won’t provide any.

  20. “Right” to attend school
    It is not a right to attend a secular school. It is a forced obligation, unless you can find a way out. Courtesy of the state. Were I the judge, I’d rule that she need not attend.

    1. It certainly [i]is [/i]a right to attend to a secular school that is paid for by the American taxpayer. As stated, there are plenty of religious schools one can attend. Moreover, homeschooling is a popular option, so no one is forcing anyone to go to public schools without any other option.

      There’s also plenty of time outside of school to indoctrinate your children into a cult, as should be obvious from the fervor with which religion is still held in our publicly secular nation.

      1. Perfect, that’s all we need in America are more home-schooled psychos with a room temperature IQ. A person with a conscience would be ashamed to do that to their children.

    2. correct ruling
      The Judge ruled correctly in this case. Jessica does not have to attend a public school where she is forced to be exposed to the insane false unsupportable religious beliefs of others.

  21. When Christians are not Christians
    I am surprised that the school allowed a religious banner to be displayed. What were they thinking? The Representative from RI should have kept his mouth shut.

    Those people who threatened Jessica Ahlquist are not true Christians. Jesus taught his followers to love their enemies, and treat them accordingly (Matthew 5:44).

    As a Christian, I have encountered “Christians” who would profess their love for Jesus, and then either be unkind and unloving towards me, or ignore me in my time of need.

    Christians need to either start acting like Christians, or keep quiet.

    Everyone should treat others with respect, whether they agree with them or not.

    Students, teachers and faculty have the right to express their religious beliefs on school property, as long as it is not part of the curriculum, or a disruption of the curriculum, or an endorsement by the school authorities.

    For example, students have the legal right to talk about religion between classes, but not during classes, which would interfere with the curriculum. And teachers have the right to wear crosses or other religious symbols, but they may not teach religion.

    In high school, I took a class called “The Bible as History.” It was history, devoid of any religious content. No problem.

    Some Christians are intolerant and hateful toward others. However, some people are the same way toward Christians. Some schools aggressively suppress religious expression of any kind, in any context,
    especially of a Christian nature, contrary to people’s first amendment rights. Hatefullness and ignorance runs both ways.

    1. sin of false accusation
      As confirmed by judicial judgment, Jessica Alquist did the right thing. Why do christians always falsely accuse people of hate when it is proven that they only did the right thing to do?

      It is not hate to merely do what is right. The true example of hate is these christians that state their desire for her to burn in hell and threaten to kill her. That is not running both ways, it is totally one sided. To imply otherwise is just not true.

      We often see christians use this type of justification. State that their hatred and death threats are ok to do because they claim that people are intolerant and “hate” them. Play their persecution complex and feel whatever hateful crime they do is allowed and justified.

      But then, anyone who reads of the vile braggadocio contained in the bible regarding god ordered and justified mass murder of non believers, it is easy to discern where this demented doctrinal demeanor derives.

  22. “Test the spirits”
    The kid’s parents could actually be satanists (they do exist), who had the kid programmed to stir up trouble for fun.

  23. jesus is nice
    Death threats, over that. That’s all that needs to be typed. Well, we are, collectively for the most part, dupes. Folks should also look into what the Constitution is really about. Rather, was really about. Did you sign it? Ever get asked that question before? Fact is most folks in this country do not know what that document was really about. And, It Fully explains Why They, for the most part, can trample over it today.

  24. Separation of school and state
    As a public school teacher (shop) I can tell you that the ideal of government schools is about government not about education. We must separate school and state for the same reason that we must keep church and state separate-for the sake of liberty. The false hope that G_d will intervene and somehow save mankind despite his self imposed ignorance is folly. But to teach to children those things which cannot be proven; to tell them that faith out weighs their reason; to promote to them falsehood as fact, in my opinion is child abuse.

    If you wish to teach philosophy using the tools of mythology, then promote it with that premise.

    If G_d exists, then he/she simply exists. My faith is not required for that existence. If G_d does not exist then all the combined faith in the world cannot bring that existence into reality. Man created G_d and now the believers are becoming desperate as the mythology unravels.

    I want to know the truth, and allow for it. I still remain hopeful for an afterlife of some sort, but I have come to realize that organized religion has no idea what the truth on that matter entails.

    1. Yep
      I agree Dave. If god was to intervene, the first thing she shoud do is to lobotomize all the organized religion lunatics who keep shaming her. But organinzed religion is a multi-billion dollar industry. With one of the largest, most heavily financed and powerful lobbies in D.C. They won’t let go of the golden calf w/o a vicious fight. If there is a god, I hope to god she is tough.

  25. Government Schools
    Actually for all espousing the constitution concerning the establishment of religion, I have a question. Where does the constitution require the establishment of government schools? You really eliminate this problem if you get rid of government run schools and guess what, schools become about education instead of indoctrination.

    1. Good point. And you won’t find the phrase “income tax” in the Constitution either. That came about long after the Constitution was written.

      The Constitution is not a document that details exactly every execution of government. More like an original guide, expounding the spirit and intent of the world’s first secular government. And how that interpretive Constitutional Law has derived judicially in progression.

      And it has changed and been ammended over time. Women were not allowed to vote until 1920, for instance. Tax supported schooling came about as a social program. Partly in response to the Industrial Age abuse of child labor in sweat shops. Laws and government programs can also originate legislatively, judicially and executively.

      Sure, the school system is not perfect. But I do prefer it over having a few hundred million illiterates hanging around the country.

      And can’t you claim tax credits for the cost of educating your children privately?

  26. Wall Of Separation
    The phrase “Wall Of Separation” does not exist in the Constitution. The phrase originates in Thomas Jefferson’s 1802 letter to the Baptist Association of Danbury, Connecticut. Jefferson was responding to the Danbury Baptists’ complaints that Connecticut’s law was oppressive to their religion (among other things, Connecticut’s law allowed towns to levy taxes for the support of a religion designated by the majority of voters; since Connecticut was overwhelmingly Congregationalist, the law effectively forced Baptists throughout the state to support Congregational churches). The Baptists, who knew of Jefferson’s advocacy of separation, “honored [Jefferson] as an apostle of religious liberty. Much of their address sounded like [Jefferson’s] bill for establishing religious freedom in Virginia, and they hoped that the sentiments of their ‘beloved President’ would prevail so that ‘hierarchy and tyranny’ would vanish from the earth” (Dumas Malone, Jefferson the President: First Term, 1801-1805, p. 109).

    1. I’m reminded of the two quizzes that every reader here should take:

      What Do You Really Know About The Bible? ([url]http://www.ffrf.org/legacy/quiz/bquiz.php[/url])
      50 questions to test your biblical knowledge

      What Do You Know About The Separation of State and Church? ([url]http://www.ffrf.org/legacy/quiz/ffrfquiz.php[/url])
      21 questions to test your knowledge of America’s valued principle

      http://www.ffrf.org/legacy/quiz/

      For all the religious out there that think the principle of separation between church and state was just an evil Satanic/Commy/Marxist plot I’ll give you the answer to question 8:

      [quote]8. Which early colonies practiced freedom of religion?

      Roger Williams’ Providence settlement

      “Trick question! Roger Williams’ Providence settlement founded in 1636 expressly guaranteed religious freedom. However, the Pilgrims originally were a tolerant people, when they founded Plymouth in 1620. By 1691, the Pilgrims had adopted the theocratic, intolerant Calvinism of the Puritans, who founded the Massachusetts Bay Colony in 1628. The Puritans came to this land expressly to establish a bible commonwealth, and banished “heretics” and dissenters. In Virginia, heresy was a capital offense punishable by death by burning. Quakers were particularly persecuted. People who were not orthodox Christians were not legally protected, could be denied civil rights and jailed. The founders of the new nation of the United States of America, conversant with extreme religious intolerance and violence in the several colonies, were determined to put an end to it. That is why they established state/church separation.”[/quote]

  27. It proves the saying true that… ‘there are good people and there are bad people, but it take religion to turn a good person into a bad person’.

    The ‘religious’ disgust me.

  28. Key Is Red, highly unlikely since most atheists don’t believe in Satan either. The whole Satan/Lucifer thing is a prerequisite of religion like Christianity. If one chooses to believe in Jesus they are also expected to believe in the devil/Satan/Lucifer. Many religions easily expose themselves as the house of cards that they are when they have no boogie-man to scare you into submission.

    Theists can’t even live up to their responsibility of ‘burden of proof’ for God or Jesus; they don’t even try to substantiate their claims about a hell, devil/Satan/Lucifer because it’s soooo utterly absurd.

    [quote]”What is an atheist? An atheist is a person who does not believe in the existence of a god, i.e., in the existence of a supernatural being. Why doesn’t the atheist believe in a god? Quite simply, because belief in a god is unreasonable. Can the atheist prove that a god does not exist? [b]The atheist need not ‘prove’ the nonexistence of a god, just as one who does not believe in magic elves, fairies, and gremlins does not have to prove their nonexistence. A person who asserts the existence of something assumes the burden of proof.[/b] The theist, or god-believer, asserts the existence of a god and must prove the claim. If the theist fails in this task, reasonable people will reject the belief as groundless. Atheists do not believe in a god because there is no reason they should. But haven’t philosophers proved the existence of a god? No. All such attempts have failed. Most philosophers and theologians now concede that belief in a god must rest on faith, not on reason. Then why not accept the existence of a god on faith? Because to believe on faith is to defy and abandon the judgment of one’s mind. Faith conflicts with reason. It cannot give you knowledge; it can only delude you into believing that you know more than you really do. Faith is intellectually dishonest, and it should be rejected by every person of integrity.”

    - “Atheism and Other Heresies” by George H. Smith, 62-3.[/quote]

    1. Excellent treatise
      Excellent summation of undeniable, indisputable fact. Etymologically, Atheist simply means “without god”. From the Greek “A”, meaning “without”. And the Greek “Theo”, meaning god. Language does progress over time, and words tend to take on additional meaning socially.

      By the absolute lack of proving evidence, it becomes quite obvious that we are all without a god. Pure assumption is never evidential. Epistimological, hermenuetic, apologetics prefer the vaguery of philosophical realm in attempt to defend and promulgate their unprovable assertions. Yet all fail as logical fallacy.

      Very true, faith is not a virtue in any fashion. It is the ancient styled benighted belief w/o evidence. Requisite demand of all invisible god religion.

      Truth can be proven empirically. Hence, the advantages we have gained w/ the advance of science. The scientific method proofs assertion and qualifies theory.

      Through scientific method case testing. Which requires observable falsifiable empirical evidence to even originate in hypothesis. Faith is entirely lacking in such, therefore cannot even enter a scientific method evaluation.

      Nor advance to antithesis, synthesis and peer review. Critical thinking, cognitive reasoning, objective analysis, subjective rationality are totally absent from faith belief. You believe simply because you are told to, no other reason. Testing, questioning or even doubt are summarily disallowed as “sin against the god”.

      You are demanded to just receive it, and submissively accept it as fact. Without demand of credible supporting evidence. And usually combined w/ threat of invisible eternal punishment for disobedience to the uncontestable divine command interpreted by masters such as pastors, priests, ministers, shepherds, and such.

      Science can carry universe origin back about 13.7 billion years. Supported by observed empirical evidence, laser telescopetry, mathematical modeling, accepted postulate and refined theory open to improvement based on better evidence discovered. But science will admit, it does not have all the answers. Thats why it keeps seeking, and why it works.

      Religion blindly claims unsupported to have the answer to everything. God did it. And if that don’t work, the devil did it. :evil:

      There is no need to disprove a negative. Theists can’t prove that invisible monkeys are not flying out of their butts every minute. Yet, there is the same amount of credible evidence to believe that as there is supporting their god figments……. ZERO.

      Sure, no one knows everything. So, there is a degree of agnosticsm in all things, no matter how slight. Even Atheism. Yet, if there is no evidence and less than a 0.0000000000000ooooooooooooooooo1^trillionth degree chance that something might possibly could maybe exist; there is no reason to believe that it does.

  29. Bob’ert Please!
    Rob,

    Although the meaning to your name is associated with ‘bright’, you fail to carry such an association.

    You wrote, “Freedom of religion is like freedom of speech. You can speak freely but no one has to like it, and no one has to listen. You can have a religion (Shinto, Buddhism, Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Wiccan, etc). The federal government is NOT allowed to make any one of those an officially acknowledged religion, but neither is it allowed to restrict anyone from freely exercising that religion”

    First of all, it is well known that with in many of the world’s ancient traditions/religions, cannabis played an essential role. This herb was spiritual to the Scythians, Chinese, and many Indians. Probably the most duplicated and one of the oldest, Buddhist literary works has been the Vinaya, or their monastic code which was shared among all Buddhists. In it we read of “sana” saunas, or cannabis saunas (both etymons from Prakrit sana), as a specific treatment for several illnesses. The monks were also permitted bamboo pipes for smoking herbs”, etc…

    The use of cannabis is prescribed in many other religions, so, according to a literal reading of first amend., if we could clearly define what makes a “religion”, only these faiths would be allowed to partake.

    The fouhders spoke of religion in a much more personal sense, sort of how we use the word spiritual. If we define religion as spirituality, fanatics, as you, would only jump back to the Fed const. to find some other obscure passage to overrule amend one.

    So, Bob, let be fair, I’ll respect you, but dont try to go into my pocket and ask me to pay to put your propaganda, or bible verse, on the cover of a school book-let it be put in its proper place, somewhere between pages 785 and 789, which is to say that it should be buried !

  30. There is a solution and it is easier than you thin
    When the STATE does not collect our money to pay for state run institutions that we are, thereby, virtually *forced* to attend we may all enjoy the “Freedom Of…” and the “Freedom From…” that every one of us craves.

    It is called Liberty and it is the only answer to so many of these vexing situations.

    So let us focus our ire where it rightly belongs, at a ubiquitously invasive STATE!

    1. Freedom, the root issue.
      I just joined this site and find it curiously interesting. In many readings I keep thinking in the back of my mind…’pot, this is kettle.. kettle… this is pot.

      Then thinking in my secure logic and life experience believing that multiculturalism and forced desegregation and forced integration is one big failure and has ruined this land. An easier fix next to complete freedom and we can’t have that until all obstacles and grievances and whine are removed. Only one way to do that. Cause for thousands of years people deep down may not care for others. Like one church on one block is going to heaven the other denomination down the street is going to hell. Yet they meet and smile but in the back of their mind feel secure they are the ones that God loves and hates the others. Now those “free thinkers” and young here will surely call an activist word like “hater” for having personal beliefs like that. Even though this thread and many more and TV news show and proves that religions and people and races will clash and always will. Unless one is made to bow and be door-mats for others like us white people have been forced to bow and be tolerant of illegal aliens and live in areas filled with crime and from certain races and anti-American religious beliefs. But not supposed to complain or try to get media in on it to show some reality.. which they will not do. Today propaganda, lies, appeasement and political correctness comes before honesty and facts.

      The big joke and fallacy is that we are NOT free and do NOT have any so-called “freedom of Religion” or “Freedom from Religions.” We are forced to live next to the ones that secretly or openly hate us Goyim, and have total control over our lives in many ways.. then play the constant victim status card and sympathy trips.

      Good for that little broad that took a stand but she did have to come up with that idea and belief from somewhere other than her own young mind. From birth whether people are in denial about it or not.. we are “socially engineered,'” indoctrinated, and manipulated even by the shortest commercials on TV. And I am talking about from every stinking thing out there and from every direction that constantly bombards us and the young be it groups, special interest groups, movements, the state, religions, various politics, and etc. Yet that too is denied by the majority especially by the masters of deploying such things and psychological warfare. To create more divisions as well or to force us to like choose between Israhell or Gaza Strip brutality. But that too doesn’t exist right? So you sir hit the nail on the head…”freedom.” We don’t have that much in any fashion or form today.

      The conundrums, or flat out lies from activist and evil ones are many. Examples. There are those who claim we have religious freedom yet there are laws on the books forbidding me to use my pick of sacraments and some old traditional rites/ceremonies from certain tribes-people that harm no-one, and may be used for health issues. But I”m white so that isn’t possible unless I be a wealthy white person with connections. But no, it has to meet governmental guidelines, restrictions, and must fit into their small minded ‘recognized’ mainstream religious beliefs or expectations. And must be acceptable to society or say… other Christians and their own belief system not mine. Being Caucasian puts more limits and restrictions on me.. not more freedom. By modern standards, not the old ways, I’m to be labeled or classified as a Christian-Zionist, Judaic-Christian or some mixture of that sorts according to the masters on TV and TBN. Anything else and I”m just a goyim, beast, heathen, Wicca or something else in their eyes and an enemy to the chosen ones because I don’t conform. And as we all know if you don’t conform and appease that clan you are automatically labeled that anti-Semite, hater and domestic terrorist. Whatever, I’m proud to be labeled and to be hated for feeling I have the basic right who to like and who not to like and who I don’t care to support, let alone rule over my entire life. So that shows that we don’t truly have freedom and don’t ever dare demand it either. We are supposed to close our eyes and repeat after them… I am free.. I am free I am free…. NOT.

      So-called “liberals” or “progressives” are just as bad and wrongly labeled but that was for propaganda and activists ploys. When in fact they are not very liberal at all and the label “progressive’ is supposed to have been more delicate and pleasing label to give some sheep that Kumbaya feelings of utopia. Which is also a lie. I know, I’m an old man that lives in a very left wing liberal/Marxist/Zionist/socialist multiple college college town. I have lost about every right and freedom that I’m supposed to have under the two Constitutions, state and federal. I had them when I was younger and before military but not now. Special interest groups, all religions, the corrupt courts, cliques, bought off politicians on both sides, all the libby colleges and college kiddies, corrupt unions, the wealthy, state and federal agencies to the two-faced ACLU with their ‘bait and switch’ tactics, none are here nor care or to guarantee anything for a white man or American that is fighting for his own rights and freedoms. That I’ve had to do all my life. Nope, no property rights, not much of anything.

      Jews.. that are totally taboo to even mention or few dare challenge in the state or nationally is censored and banned on all levels. Of course this is a fine example of why they, and the anti-Americans, need to silence any and all dissent by political correctness which is nothing more than thought and speech control. To silence us just like happened in Canada, Germany, France and the UK., with those same phony needs and restrictions while crying for money and victim status and the need for power and control. Hell, people have been thrown in prison for writing books and being scholars daring to challenge some propaganda and lies from those who wish to control us all apparently. Oh and yes preachers imprisoned and lives ruined as well for free speech and daring to mention the wrong bible verse, topic, or anything concerning the chosen or a negative about Israel. Freedom? I think it is obvious who demands and wants all control and has pushed or been behind about every anti-American, anti-freedom movement against whitey and our Constitution. Serving only themselves and special interest groups. Like radical feminism and Atheist to illegal aliens to thought and speech controls. Yep, freedom for sure huh?

      The Menorah is allowed in OUR White House and National Lawn where the Christian cross in forbidden by law. Jewish groups are the only ones allowed to hold their religious celebrations and holidays celebrating wars in the White House when no others can. Hmmm freedom for who? The masters that seem to hold the governing cards in DC over us all? And who owns and controls all media, or most? I’ve had them stop me here in Indiana for daring to write and pass news along like the above. They posted some of my info and posted topics on their websites then called it hate, anti-American and had our local forums closed down for not bowing down to them, to cease the free flow of information because they in part rule this area and state. And of course to show me who is in control. White boys can’t have and do what others are allowed to. Freedom? Double standards of course like with other activist and true haters that love using that ‘hate’ word thinking that using “racist’ will shut someone up. or get then killed to be silenced. Seen that “hate’ word used here too when others spoke freely, and from seemingly the loving liberal, atheist, she-god loving side of the issue. My oh my.

      On the court house in Parke County there is a big Star of David on the court house clock. They rule here. The ACLU and others refuse to come here and have it removed. Yet crosses and manger scenes have all been banned from all government buildings… except for the Zionist and their Mossad symbol for control and rule. Gee, is that fair, just, or “freedom?” Fancy that! Some are allowed to have freedom and constantly demand it, while having many special allowances already, while others aren’t allowed the very same courtesy, thoughts or allowances. Freedom?!! Not for all. America has turned into a politically correct, heavily divided, foreigner controlled, corrupt, censored, dumbed-down, socially engineered, manipulated, hell hole. Freedom and the old propaganda of our troops over-seas fighting for our freedoms in one huge friggin lie and psy-ops BS.

      I get death threats, property damage, fought, and shot at for daring to ask about equality or stand against corruption and double standards and tyranny?!!! Freedom? Yeah, under the Mossad I guess.

      Gee, could I tell some stories about corruption and evils and who is behind it all. The sh– being taught to young kids today, much worse than about some god. I better stop. It’s been fun reading all these threads and seeing some of those typical double standards, and control issues. Or the expectations that we are all supposed to think, believe, and be PC. Now I guess I”m the cruel one and again the hater. But what is … is. Reality is reality, not PC BS. PC-ness is just as dangerous a cult than any fanatical religion. So are the lies of about freedom when we have none to begin, or that we are all supposed to be PC and akin to mindless robots accepting whatever we are told, from some commie/Zionist controlled college, butt kissing preacher, or something reported on TV.

  31. Our public schools should not allow God in them, period. God has no business in the public forum and so called Christian virtues like honesty, charity, hope, goodness, love of neighbour, etc should be kept where they belong, in church on Sunday’s. Only atheistic/Marxist/homosexual and pagan principles should predominate public office and our public schools and instutions as they are becoming to be.
    On the other, hand all of the above, including the people who espouse non-chrisitian values and institutions will justly not be allowed into God’s heaven as it does not allow vice, filth, ignorance, stupiditiy, hatred, and non-christians to enter. There seems to be the smell of sulfur and brimstone in the ari.

    1. Hypocrite
      // “vice, filth, ignorance, stupiditiy, hatred” //

      Oh, you mean the christian virtues of those long time praised christian heroes like Ted Haggard, Jim Baker, Jimmy Swaggart and other such xtian ilk. And the exhibited christian virtues of mass murder and pedophilia employed by bible preachers like Jim Jones, David Koresh, Warren Jeffs,Tony Alamo and others.

      And to cry the ‘No True Scotsman” fallacy is pure failure. The smell of absolute ignorance is already in the air.

      1. Oh, you mean the christian virtues
        Really? Christian virtues? :whistle: Lets see who else might share these virtues, like, I don’t know, our most famous American atheist as described by her son, William Murray:

        “When I was a young boy of ten or eleven years old she would come home and brag about spending the day in X-rated movie theaters in downtown Baltimore…. My mother’s whole life circulated around such things… It was love of power over people that finally caused not only her death, but the deaths of my brother and my daughter… My mother was an evil person… Not for removing prayer from America’s schools… No, she was just evil. She stole huge amounts of money. She misused the trust of people. She cheated children out of their parents’ inheritance. She cheated on her taxes and even stole from her own organizations. She once printed up phony stock certificates on her own printing press to try to take over another atheist publishing company….Regardless of how evil and lawless my mother was she did not deserve to die in the manner she did.”

        Madalyn Murray O’Hair – Atheist virtues in a nutshell. Or rather, what you get when your “god” is money.

  32. nice try
    Federal vs. State law was confused long before us. Several State Constitution were ratified before the FED with language like “remain forever inviolate”.

    The Fed attempts to ignore this, etc. and this is only the beginning

    Time to start from scratch as you cannot carve new laws on rotten wood

  33. They don’t have be pleased
    If people that don’t believe and claim their offended by such displays!
    :P You do not believe how can you be offended?

  34. don’t confuse federal with state law
    It is quite amazing how most commenters are twisting the constitution to read what they like to foist upon the rest of the population. The constitution applies to matters that the federal govenrment is allowed to regulate. Education is not one of them. Thus every state is free to prescribe religious behavior they seem fit!
    The Union was supposed to be a laboratory, in which each state was free to find a better solution -and if people liked it, they would flock to that state. So all atheists would be free to flock to the state that outlawed God in education. Strange – it never happened.
    And to all who trot out the old warhorse of separation of church and state based upon a letter written by Thomas Jefferson – if we rely in that instance upon “intent” to interpret the constitution, then we have to uphold the death penalty, abortion bans, no voting rights for women, freedom to ingest any drug you like, etc., since the founders did find those laws to be in line with their constitution – not that I would necessarily object to those. However, what underlies the idea of America, is the freedom to live in an environment that each and everybody finds comfortable and in which one could live with likeminded individuals. Call it freedom of assembly – Mormon communities for Mormons with Mormon standards and even non-Christian communities and states for people who were Jewish or other “heathens”. Pretty tolerant for a bunch of predominantly Christian white males.
    So I would expect some tolerance towards those Christians who allowed you atheists to freely assemble is in order and wise. Because if you go for confrontation, you can only lose.

  35. assumption
    I disagree w/ that generalized assumption. I tutor Calculus at a local college, and some of the most talented students I encounter were home schooled.

    Though as sharp as some are involving science and mathematics curriculum, they can also show to be extremely deficient in matters of logic and reason regarding faith belief.

    I blame that on indoctrination. I have actually seen some come to realization, and learn to question and demand evidential support for assertions.

    As with students from the public school system, their developed abilities depend more on the effort and determination of the individual. And the effeciency of their teachers.

  36. even more amazing
    In spite of the foisted twisting, it is a fact that the federal government provides funding from tax dollars for public schools. No State is allowed to force any personal religion on children in public schools.

    It has been proven repeatedly judicially that it is against the law for you to attempt to force your religion on children in public schools. It is not strange that is against the law.

    I disagree w/ your interpreted constitutional intent of death, abortion, mysoginy and drugs. The federal government does not require and enforce the death penalty, abortion bans, denial of voting rights based on gender, the legalization of all drugs; by Constitutional decree. What an amazing twist.

    Freedom of Assembly is not applied only in regards to religion. Christians did not give Atheists the right to freedom of assembly, the Constitution did.

    Your claim that the idea of America is the freedom to live in an environment that each and everybody finds comfortable and in which one could live with likeminded individuals. would most certainly preclude others from forcing their religious beliefs on you by government facility. And your philosophy of separatist segregationist secession failed w/ the Civil War.

    It is not only right to confront and oppose such wrongful injustice as these perverse ideas, and also the preaching of religious demand in public schools. It is requisite, unless you want to lose.

  37. Gimme a break
    There is no “separation of church and state” verbiage anywhere in the constitution, certainly not in the first amendment, which is strictly for preventing the federal government from creating/enforcing an official, state-sponsored religious denomination…not for preventing religious participation in the political process. Kindly stop misconstruing the establishment clause to say something it does not. Please cease from mixing and mis-applying verbiage from Thomas Jefferson’s private correspondence in with reporting on the constitution.

    1. Simple Simon, you can repeat that lie for another 2,000 years too but, it will never make it true. Your argument was already addressed above.

      The Supreme Court disagrees with you, the founding fathers disagreed with you, many priests, pastors, preachers, reverends, preachers and many christians disagree with you too.

    2. Thank you. My original article makes no claim that there is any “separation of church and state” verbiage in the American Constitution, so if you are addressing my article, your remarks constitute inaccurate and erroneous strawmen.

      In the meantime, I also provided traditions and other legislation that [i]does [/i]provide for such a “wall.” It appears that you did not even read my article before providing us with a canned anti-church-state separation rant.

  38. God is soveriegn.
    Don’t worry about God. Keep him far from you mind, in eveything you experience in the reality he oversees. That’s the message that American youth are being taught in todays secular humanist school system. Go ahead, the creator is the creator none the less.

  39. 40ft White House Chanuka Menorah
    I will support the atheist movement when they turn their sights to the gigantic 40ft Chanuka menorah that is hoisted up in front of the White House every Jewish religious holiday season.

    Until then they are all hypocrites to me.

    That is all.

  40. God’constitution superced every other man made constitution, when we follow and allow it influence our characters, we always conquer persecution like this student

  41. The Inadequate Education of Children in the USA
    I have a two part question that gets to the root of the problem with the education system in the USA:

    Why do children in the US have to attend a college or university to learn what really happened in history and can the US teach history like it teaches science and leave out bias?

    “What a wonderful world this would be!”

    1. True. However there is no escaping special interest groups and those who have agendas for re-writing or historical revisionism. It’s more about social engineering. It’s about political correctness and for some the demands of denying our white culture and heritage to appease others, so as not to offend. As well as indoctrinations of white guilt and that we owe others everything for one reason or the other. I walked away from a secular liberal arts college and a conservative bible college. Both having their own agendas, demanding political correctness, rules not to offend certain groups, religions or people. Ignoring many facts and truths, and forced to use only their educational materials and their own alumni authors and professors. Any outside material or research that challenged their so-called truth were forbidden.

      That is why a few years ago there was a big squabble in Texas about what was going to be allowed in history books and what would not be included and what totally declined or replaced. Especially since that material and their expectations or demands were used throughout the majority of the country.

      I went back to retrain as a much older “non-traditional” student. Only to find that real education, facts, truth, was one of the last things on the list to be taught. The first seemed to be the party attitude and what city had the most partying college town in the nation.

      One thing that fascinated me was like before.. being told to be an individual and ‘free thinker’ then to the contrary be expected to conform and to adopt things like political correctness in every way, and far left herding as a given and a must. If not, one mistake like using the Negro word, could create a hell on Earth and seemed like I was back in grade school with the bullies, taunts, name-calling, immaturity, and the expectations to be just like everyone else, think like them, want like them all, and have to buy the same style wind-breaker jacket that everyone else had or be… un-cool and not part of the clique or cult of the ‘IN” crowd.

  42. Oh, dear. More “good christians”, showing exactly why religion is such a terrible idea. I wonder why it is that they spend so much time and effort on trying to control *other* people’s minds. Weird people.

    Death threats! They show that they are not much different from other nasty religions like islam.

    Thank goodness good sense is beginning to win out. Religion everywhere is dying out. And not a moment too soon. We are becoming too powerful to allow stone-age bigotry to risk destroying everything.

  43. Satanists heheh
    I’m very amused that someone would speak of satanists as a bad thing. I seriously doubt that any genuine satanists really exist, but if they do, worshipping satan would have some advantages over worshipping the bible’s god. Count up the people enumerated in the bible as having been murdered by god. Ignore all the animals and all the women and children who are not numbered, and ignore the claims of vast numbers of deaths that don’t have an accompanying figure (for example in the flood). You’ll find the bible lists about 2.4 million people killed by god. How many does the bible say satan killed? Six. And those are with the help and encouragement of god.

    I really wish christians would actually read their stupid bible.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published.


*

You may use these HTML tags and attributes: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>

© 2014 Freethought Nation, Acharya S, D.M. Murdock & Stellar House Publishing
Skysa App Bar