Rosetta Stone’s return to Egypt a bad idea?
Egyptian authorities have been demanding that the world-famous and crucially important artifact the Rosetta Stone be returned to Egypt. As a student of Greek archaeology, I recall clearly the brouhaha over the demanded return to Athens of the Elgin Marbles, also at the British Museum like the Rosetta Stone. While it may sound like a good idea to repatriate these priceless treasures, given the current climate in Egypt and its relatively recent past, it seems to me that the stone which unlocked the hieroglyphs for the world would not be safe ultimately in the Land of the Pharaohs.
Why do I make this contention concerning a possible security threat for the Rosetta Stone if it were returned to Egypt? I base on my conclusion on the rising Islamic fundamentalism there that is allowing for other priceless antiquities to be destroyed on a regular basis by Muslim fanatics, including faces and hands being hacked off statuary that had survived for millennia. In consideration of this factor – whereby Egypt is obviously unable to protect all of its treasures – it would seem best to leave the Rosetta Stone in London. (Although the way things are going in Londonistan, that locale may become unsafe as well.)
Ditto with the other antiquities – including the exquisite bust of Queen Nefertiri – that Egypt is pressing other governments to return: Can they be guaranteed to be safe from Muslim maniacs?
Indeed, Muslim fanatics have been destroying antiquities, including not only the most egregious case of the Bamiyan Buddhas but, again, also in Egypt itself. For example, in 2006 a Muslim religious fanatic in Egypt apparently incited by the Grand Mufti of Egypt, who earlier had put out a fatwa against statues damaged statues in an Egytian museum.
Statue attack fuels fears of an Islamist Egypt
A religiously motivated attack on statues at a museum in Cairo has sparked outcry in Egypt and fuelled fears that the country is veering towards an Islamic state.
The attack on three artworks, by a black-clad and veiled woman screaming, “Infidels, infidels!” followed a fatwa issued by the Grand Mufti of Cairo, Ali Gomaa, which banned all decorative statues of living beings.
It led to furious criticism of the mufti from Egyptian liberals. In a televised debate with the mufti after the attack, one poet raged that “the prevalent religious discourse in the country encourages terror”.
Although the ancient treasures of Egypt have been protected under Islam so far, an increasing extremism in the country could make statues such as the quartzite head of Nefertiti, the colossus of Amenhotep, and the golden death mask of Tutankhamen possible targets in future.
“It was a fully covered, religious woman,” said Raisa Intesar, who looks after both the museum and Mr Heshmat, who is now 86. “She had jumped over the wall. We rushed out to stop her but by the time we had overpowered her, she had destroyed three statues.”…
“She had been listening to the mufti, and was following his orders,” Ms Intesar said.
To reiterate, other recent instances have been reported of Muslim fanatics have been hacking off hands and faces of ancient statuary in other parts of Egypt, also possibly encouraged by the fatwa.
As the article, “Fatwa against statues triggers uproar in Egypt” at Middle East Online, explains:
…many fear the edict could prod Islamic fundamentalists to attack Egypt’s thousands of ancient and pharaonic statues on show at tourist sites across the country.
“We don’t rule out that someone will enter the Karnak temple in Luxor or any other pharaonic temple and blow it up on the basis of the fatwa,” Gamal al-Ghitani, editor of the literary Akhbar al-Adab magazine, said.
Under such circumstances, should we just hand over priceless antiquities to Egypt?
Further Reading
Egypt ignores rebuff and demands British Museum return Rosetta Stone
Rosetta Stone row ‘would be solved by loan to Egypt’
Egypt pushes for return of antiquities to origin countries
Fatwa against statues triggers uproar in Egypt
Religiously Motivated Attack on Egyptian Statues
66 thoughts on “Rosetta Stone’s return to Egypt a bad idea?”
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The H-J Connection
Is there a chance that we can return Jesus to Egypt? Could this possibly be the root of the whole matter. Everyone has left and they need a rock to keep the papers from flying away.
Good point!
Why they had nothing to do with this culture?
The Greek should have more claim than Egypt, the people there are not the people who built the pyramids. Those people died out or bred out long ago!
On a side note anyone ever read the stuff by Alister Crowley? HAHAHA Anyway his demons name was get this AUASS get it Zahui “Awass”, this guy keeps more history under wraps or out rite destroys it than any Freemason has!
There are no guarantees about anything in life. You can not simply stop doing things because of what might happen. If the artifacts are Egyptian then return them to Egypt. They have been photographed and documented for all of antiquity. As horrible as it would be if they were destroyed or lost, we can’t stop doing what is right simply because of what might happen some day in the future.
Why do they suddenly want it back? Why now? It may be a political football.
The world will keep it in “trust” for you as long as you want in nice, safe London.
If the artifacts are Egyptian then return them to
i missed that one Don. :confused:
we’re you being witty? ironic? was it a play on words? -or-
are you simply disrespectful towards another persons religion because you think that is fun?
right on josephine … if that is where the artifacts were found, then they should be returned there.
nationalistic ownership rights – VS – a greater go
” … if that is where [Egypt] the artifacts were found, then they should be returned there.”
Such a simplistic solution may on it’s surface sound perfectly legal, logical and fair, but a more reasoned “whole picture” view would be one that acknowledges that the historical artifacts were, in fact, found on Earth. Therefore, they have a global importance and belong to the ENTIRE Earth’s peoples. Common sense that dictates that the world community come together to protect it’s history from irresponsible management and possible destruction. I agree with Acharya and applaud her calling attention to this issue.
Being collectively responsible is not a new concept. We can see this more enlightened, more responsible view in action everyday in our society, as we attempt to apply reason and responsibility to difficult decisions in hopes of avoiding unfortunate outcomes … the “what might happen”s … the high likelihood of tragedies which our past experience has taught us to anticipate. For example … when parents of a child have shown a history of neglect or abuse, we reasonably anticipate the risk of further irresponsibility on the part of the parents and, as a society that values “doing what’s right”, we have no qualms about protecting the safety of the child by removing it from the care of the parents and placing custody in the hands of responsible caretakers. While the parent’s always scream of their paternal “rights” of “ownership”, we take pride in the fact that we had the courageous foresight and clear thinking to intervene BEFORE more damage is done.
Acharya’s point is easy to agree with. It’s all about responsibly thinking beyond petty tribal or nationalistic “ownership” issues and caring for something we should all agree is more important than “this is mine, I had it first, I want it back”. The artifacts of our common history should be preserved for the ENTIRE world and should not be hidden away to satisfy the egos of selfish political, religious, or materialistic hoarders … especially those who’ve shown a pattern of being incapable of protecting historical treasures.
They should stay were they are! We’ve paid for them in the long term via aid etc, anyway they are safer where they are. They probably belong to the Northern Europeans or they have a greater claim because we may be the diaspora who left Egypt. The present people are not the Egyptians of the Rosetta stone.
Don’t return this object
I hope they don’t return this object. The Egyptians have a history of not properly caring for objects of the past and allowing them to decay and age improperly.
Egyptian arteifacts
I thought it was the early Christians who were responsible for defacing Egyptian artefacts. Many temples I saw on my recent visit bore the signs of such vandalism. The Egyptian government and people are doing a very good job of preserving what remains of their early civilisation, I’m sure the stone would be well cared for .
Yes, Egyptian Christians destroyed many artifacts. Fortunately, there was so much that they couldn’t destroy it all.
However, since Egypt fell to the Muslims, they too have engaged in sustained destruction of Egyptian antiquities that continues to this day, a fact that it appears many readers are not aware of.
Return the treasure to Egypt
The author indulges in a bit of colonial arrogance here. Egypt is quite capable of protecting its treasures. It is Britian that has become the lair of the Illuminati in a collapsing economy and how stable is that?
[quote name=”Cold Wind”]The author indulges in a bit of colonial arrogance here. Egypt is quite capable of protecting its treasures. It is Britian that has become the lair of the Illuminati in a collapsing economy and how stable is that?[/quote]
You are apparently unaware of the ongoing destruction of antiquities of recent years , including statues within the Cairo Museum itself, by Muslim fanatics. There is even a link to the museum story in this article itself. As an archaeology student, yes, I would engage in whatever will protect these priceless treasures.
Also note my comments about “Londonistan.” Are you agreeing that Muslim fanatics will be destroying artifacts in the West as well?
Then you people will say Africa had no great civilizations.
That’s right fight over our glory.
Who is disagreeing that Egypt had a great civilization and that it is in Africa?
Who are “you people?”
“Racism?” Where is there anything in this article about race? What has race got to do with this subject? Playing the race card where it has no place not only demonstrates a very poor hand/intellect but it also cheapens [i]real [/i]racism.
What do I have to do with Christianity? I have critiqued its pathology for many years.
The word “bigot” means:
“a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.”
I am certainly utterly intolerant of the [i]bigotry [/i] of religious fanaticism that allows for the destruction of priceless antiquities.
You seem to be quite bigoted against me and Western civilization.
Here is the apparent origin of the word “bigot”:
[quote]Legend has it that Rollo, the first duke of Normandy, refused to kiss the foot of the French king Charles III, uttering the phrase [i]bi got[/i], his borrowing of the assumed Old English equivalent of our expression [i]by God[/i]..Bigot is first recorded in English in 1598 with the sense “a superstitious hypocrite.”.[/quote]
As you can see, the term was directed at [i]religious fanatics[/i], of which I am not one. The people destroying priceless antiquities over the centuries have largely been religious fanatics. [b] I am trying to protect these important cultural artifacts [i]from [/i]bigots.[/b]
Shrill cries of “racism” and “bigot” will not make the issue of ongoing destruction of Egyptian antiquities at the hands of Muslims go away.
it’s theirs
Gi ve it back it belongs to them, and make a copy of it. Because it is theirs they have the right to destroy it.
I strongly agree. Also, the audience for these treasures are not in their homeland, where they would languish in relative obscurity, but in the West where people are curious and have money. Safety concerns are very real. Remember the Bhuddas of Afghanistan that were destroyed by the Taliban? Most Westerners will not travel to see Angor Watt, they all LOVE to go to London to the British Museum. Hawass needs to get another job as Prime Minister or something. He is thinking simplisticly, he is out of line!
Lets no longer be nannies.
Let them have it back. Let them all have them all back if they want them. After all, right is right re original ownership (:-)E)
Consider the ARTISTIC value of an artifact. IMHO, Rosetta stone, zero. (So its destruction would not be catastrophic.) Vs. Winged Victory of Samothrace artistic value at unity or 100%.
For any of these objects we have enough photometric records and the technology to allow for their reconstruction if desired.
In my view an object like the Winged Victory should be reproduced WITH the wings and head in the best reasonable artistic guesstimate so we can finally see what it might have looked like as a complete original. (Like Michaelangelo did with the Laucoon.)
Also I vote for restoration of the Parthenon, Erecthion, and the Propylaea – as well as the Sphinx and maybe even the original stone casing and capstone on the Great Pyramid. Seriously, while we are at it, lets throw in a rebuild of the Lighthouse of Alexandria.
I know, I know, our bridges need fixing too. So lets stop the wars.
[quote]Consider the ARTISTIC value of an artifact. IMHO, Rosetta stone, zero. (So its destruction would not be catastrophic.)[/quote]
You obviously do not understand the value of the Rosetta Stone, which allowed for the unlocking of the Egyptian hieroglyphs and the long-lost civilization of Egypt. From there we have discovered a vast amount of culture emanated out of Egypt, including many religious concepts, as can be found in my book [i]Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection[/i] ([url]http://stellarhousepublishing.com/christinegypt.html[/url]).
“Laughable” is indeed a good title for your rant.
The fact that you need to ask about these various issues indicates that you yourself are ignorant of them. We don’t need the various mainstream media outlets these days – there’s a little thing called the internet that provides news from all over the world that is easily verifiable. Your remarks are simply more of the same fallacies designed to distract away from the issues, which Bonnie has intelligently detailed in her posts.
The real issues are that Muslim fanatics are highly intolerant of other cultures, religions, artwork, etc. – and that is the definition of [i]bigotry[/i], so if you are looking for bigots, you need look no farther. As part of this blatant Islamic bigotry, Muslim fanatics have been destroying antiquities, including not only the most egregious case of the Bamiyan Buddhas ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhas_of_Bamyan[/url]) but also in Egypt itself – again, a fact you not need to ask about if you had known about it in the first place. Apparently you are oblivious to the fact that statues depicting humans are [i]haraam [/i]in Islam.
In this original article, I have even linked to a story about a Muslim religious fanatic in Egypt egged on by another maniac – the Grand Mufti of Egypt – who put out a fatwa against statues just a few years ago. She then went on an infidel-hating rampage and damaged statues [i]in a Museum itself[/i].
Religiously Motivated Attack on Egyptian Statues ([url]http://www.shortnews.com/start.cfm?id=55346[/url])
[quote]Cairo – A black clad veiled woman damaged 3 statues in an Egyptian Museum while screaming: “Kufar, Kufar” (Infidels). Recently “The Grand Mufti” of Cairo Ali Gomaa issued an Islamic Fatwa banning statues of live people ([url]http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=16142[/url])…
Raisa Intesar, who looks after both the museum said that: “She (attacker) had been listening to the mufti, and was following his orders.”[/quote]
I have also read from either Graham Hancock or Robert Bauval that Muslim fanatics have been hacking off hands and faces of ancient statuary in other parts of Egypt, also likely encouraged by the fatwa.
As the article, “Fatwa against statues triggers uproar in Egypt ([url]http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=16142[/url])” at Middle East Online – [i]not Fox News[/i] – explains:
[quote]Still, many fear the edict could prod Islamic fundamentalists to attack Egypt’s thousands of ancient and pharaonic statues on show at tourist sites across the country.
“We don’t rule out that someone will enter the Karnak temple in Luxor or any other pharaonic temple and blow it up on the basis of the fatwa,” Gamal al-Ghitani, editor of the literary Akhbar al-Adab magazine, said.
[/quote]
Under such circumstances, should we just hand over priceless antiquities to Egypt?
These points were clear enough in my original post. Your kneejerk and violent response is based on your own ignorance.
So how many artifacts, monuments, and religious sites has the US war surge destroyed in just a few short years? get real
I don’t support the Iraqi war, and I am appalled at the loss of priceless antiquities in that nation as well.
Get real yourself – this article isn’t about Iraq, and your argument represents a logical fallacy called “tu quoque.”
You did the same, Acharya S
“Indeed, Muslim fanatics have been destroying antiquities, including not only the most egregious case of the Bamiyan Buddhas”
Which, of course, are NOT in Egypt, they are in American-occupied Afghanistan.
So, you have little standing to get all high and mighty with this retort:
“Get real yourself – this article isn’t about Iraq, and your argument represents a logical fallacy called “tu quoque.” Not when YOU bring up something in Afghanistan to augment your silly premise.
Amazingly racist article from someone I used to admire, and no artifacts are in danger in Egypt, from “Muslim fanatics” nor any other imaginary boogiemen.
The ancient Egyptians were White people. The only people that are the legitimate heirs to the culture of the ancient Egyptians are the present day Europeans, therefore the Rosetta Stone, which was rediscovered by White Europeans needs to be watched over by Europeans and not the present day rulers of Egypt who are of dubious racial classification. The Elgin Marbles are another story. Greece is a European nation which has a right to it’s own history and therefore the marbles should be given back to them.
Safe from Muslim maniacs? Im sorry but what are you smoking?
Of course its going to be safe! Is the pyramid destroyed by the “muslim maniacs”? is the Sphinx destroyed by the “muslim maniacs”?
This piece smells totally like an anti muslim propaganda.
Rosetta stone was stolen. It rightly belongs in the land it came from.
You are apparently completely unaware of the fact that the city of Cairo is largely built from the white limestone casing of the Pyramids at Giza, taken by the Muslims who invaded and occupied Egypt centuries ago.
You are also unaware of the terrorist attack at Luxor years ago that could have annihilated many more priceless antiquities. Nor are you aware of the ongoing destruction of ancient Egyptian statues by Muslim fanatics. Even the Cairo Museum was unable to prevent such destruction, as in the news item I linked in the original article.
Nice ad hom, though.
In the USA, Native American tribes often demand ‘repatriation’ of remains and artifacts which they claim are their ancestral heritage. However, the nomadic nature of the ancient Native Amercan tribes casts doubt on whether this, that, or any current tribe actually deserves to claim the remains or artifacts.
When a Native American tribe is given possession of remains and artifacts, they often bury them in remote and undisclosed locations with the intention that the remains and artifacts will be permanently ‘lost’ from public examination. Thus, the Native Americans effectively ‘destroys’ the artifacts.
It appears to me that the Native Americans who bury these artifacts hate history, including their own tribal history.
To allow them to destroy these historic articles is to support and share in their hatred of history.
……….I base on my conclusion on the rising Islamic fundamentalism there that is allowing for other priceless antiquities to be destroyed on a regular basis by Muslim fanatics, including faces and hands being hacked off statuary that had survived for millennia………….
How about rising western racism? Are you aware of the damage the coalition forces have done to the ancient cities of Iraq? Large tracts of the City of Ur have been paved over to make an airbase. Do you recalll how western forces stood back while paid peshmerga kurdish forces robbed the antiquities museum and had much of the national treasures carted off to private collectors in Europe? How about the continued destruction of ancient art and structures is Israel. It goes continues on a daily basis. They keep digging and digging looking for proof of an ancient connection to the land. Sorry its not there. How about the bulldozing of native American burial mounds throughout the midwest? Didn’t mention that did you? It seems the fanaticism is everywhere. Maybe you should look in a mirror first.
.
.
What “racism?” Where is there anything in this article about race? The West is populated by people of all races, so who exactly are you referring to? This issue has nothing to do with race at all. I know it’s a nice card to play, but it’s also totally false and a sign of a very poor hand.
I am absolutely aware of the destruction of ancient Mesopotamian artifacts, and I am completely appalled by this crime against humanity – what makes you think otherwise? Do you have some prejudices yourself that make you respond with such fallacious kneejerk arguments? Perhaps that mirror would be better turned on yourself.
As a longtime student of archaeology, I also do not abide by the destruction of Native American antiquities – what has that got to do with this particular issue? This is another example of the logical fallacy of “tu quoque.”
Don’t give it back to them!
Don’t give it back to them! Let them ask nicely for it. Also, if the muslims want to destroy it let them.
Moronic imbiciles
javascript:JOSC_emoticon(“:woohoo:”)This is blatant racism and arrogant provincialism at its worst; particularly the comment by Don. Christians have destroyed far more artifacts in their wars against each other so stick in your ear. The author of this article is a bigot, and if he/she/it doesn’t think so, they need to brace themselves and look up the definition. The stone belongs to Egypt, it is their heritage and it is theirs to do with as they wish. How about the Occident stops making excuses for it’s violent imperialism and at least attempts to set right the MANY wrongs it has committed on this planet.
Troll …
Troll.
Return of Rosetta Stone
Well, on this point, I agree completely with Acharya.
The rulers of Egypt at this moment, are the moslems-with no respect for beliefs of others, much less, those of the Ancient Egyptians. The Arabs are NOT the descendants of the Ancient Egyptians, the only interests today is money from tourism, and ride on the Ancient Glory.
The real Egyptians are the farmers and lower echelon, which the Arabs contemptiusly call “Fellahim.” These still practice the Ancient Ways, under the thin cloak of islam- for self-protection. The Old Ways? The KNOWING that Everything is part of THE God. A dog, a cat, trees, plants, knowing that Mind IS Matter.
Thank you, Bonnie, for a real voice of reason here. Unlike other posters who have little more to offer than fallacies and personal attacks, your history and facts are correct.
Laughable
…..I base on my conclusion on the rising Islamic fundamentalism
Great what is your knowledge of Islam? Fox News? CNN? JPost? MSNBC?
…..is allowing for other priceless antiquities to be destroyed on a REGULAR BASIS by Muslim FANATICS……
Evidence? Links? Police Reports?
…..whereby Egypt is OBVIOUSLY UNABLE to protect all of its treasures..
Based on what evidence. Oh yeah, just your opinion. Have you visited the Egyptian Museum in Cairo? Have you visited the rooms that hold the 4000 year old mummies? Are you aware of the security? Are you aware of the new museum under construction?
…….it would seem best to leave the Rosetta Stone in London…….
Along with all the other looted, stolen, desecrated treasure that does not belong to the British Government.
…….Although the way things are going in LONDONISTAN, that locale may become unsafe as well.
Gosh, oh where or where did I get the impression that you might be a bigot?
Ditto with the other antiquities – including the exquisite bust of Queen Nefertiri – that Egypt is pressing other governments to return: Can they be guaranteed to be safe from Muslim maniacs?
Speaking of bigotry and Londonistan –
[img]http://freethoughtnation.com/images/londonistan.jpg[/img]
BTW, if the Rosetta Stone is returned, it will set a precedent. Then the Egptn gov will ask for everything back, the “Bust of Nefertiti” in Berlin, and the “Sphinx of Hatshepsut” in the Metropolitan, etc.
At this moment in time, the gov of Egypt is utterly corrupt. There is evidence that they are welling original artifacts to private collectors. Not only that, but something strange is going on there, because a great many places are now closed off to tourism. Hawass authroized a wall built around the Giza Plateau- where the Great Pyramid and the Sphinx is.
A lot of archeological sites haave been closed.
As to Ancient Egpt being part of Africa, that’s like saying the French and the Spanish are the same, just because they’re in the same Continent.
Ancient Egypt stands alone! The civilization- whereever it originated, is its own- NOT part of Europe OR the Black Africans. In fact, at the time, both Egyptians and Nubians or Central Africans, recognized their separateness.
Yes, the ANcient Egyptians had features of Europeans AND Black Africans, but these former, never had a sense of RACE, they never considered themselves Black, theire completely loyalty was to their kingdom, Khemet. Many Ancient Egyptians had very dark skins, many had copper skins, and some golden skinned, but they considered themselves, were nothing else BUT Egyptians.
Nobody, today, should claim them as Black, or White.
Race is only a modern obsession.
Very interesting and level-headed take on the ancient Egyptians, race, etc. – I concur with your conclusions. B)
About the “race” and ethnic affiliations of the ancient Egyptians:
There is no need for guesswork or speculation about their appearance, since there are many murals and manuscripts which they painted, showing their own population and other peoples that they came into contact with.
Bonnie is quite correct: they showed their own people with that variety of skin colors, and distinct in both physical appearance and clothing styles from black Africans (such as the Nubians, whose land was directly to the south, and whose culture had much in common with Egypt’s). They were also distinct from the various Middle Eastern peoples, including Semites and Indo-Europeans.
Arabs conquered Egypt, but they did not invade and settle in large numbers; the bulk of the Egyptian people are the same ethnicity as the ancient Egyptians. The majority of them converted to Islam and took up the Arabic language for all purposes, so they are mistakenly thought of as Arabs. That makes no more sense than calling a Navajo who speaks English an “Englishman”. 😉
About 10% of the population retained the Christianity that their ancestors were forced to accept when the Roman Empire outlawed “pagan” religions. However, even as Christians, they had retained their own language, although writing it in variant of Greek letters instead of in hieroglyphs. These Egyptians are called “Copts”, which word is really a version of “Egypt”. Gradually, almost all Copts began to lose the language for everyday use, in favor of Arabic, but to this day the Coptic Orthodox Church uses the Coptic language, the “modern” form of ancient Egyptian in its liturgy.
So, they have lost their original religion, but the Egyptian people are alive and well, and some still use the modern form of their own traditional language. The Coptic community openly acknowledges continuity with their ancestors’ culture, despite the religious difference.
Reply
The religion is supposed to be mine. The rock is a play on words seeing as we are talking about a rock. The idea came from ‘The Horus-Jesus Connection’.
Understandable
After the iraq museum was robbed by english and american soldiers I can understand they might be scared if egypt was invaded by israel and their priceless treasures stolen. Mabey they have WMD, no they do, lol
all for naught
This is all a huge waste of time, earth history and all the ridiculous idols and statues are built on lies and falsehoods. How about giving a CRAP about what is happening in the here and now? While you self absorbed veiled and not so veiled insult traders are verbally masturbating about things that should be of zero concern to you, the entire planet is being taken over by the most vile and pathetic bastards imaginable! Refocus your arrogant efforts on something that life itself hinges on. These stupid statues are going to be the last things on your minds when the real bigots have completely choked out any free will on Earth. Grow up and look up “priorities” You stupid fools!
‘Crucially important’? How, exactly?
The Rosetta stone was important when it was used to help folks like Campollion decipher hieroglyphs (and to a leser extent, to better understand hieratic)… it has absolutely no current value as a research tool.
It’s basically a very heavy propaganda poster, and the UK has no need for further research down that road – it has been bathed in propaganda so professionally that it now calls that degenerate homosexual Mandelson, ‘Lord’.
The thing might be a crowd-puller, but I bet that if the Poms discovered that Boudicca’s chariot was in a museum in Italy, they would demand it back… likewise if the Frogs found out that Napoleon’s high heels were in Moscow.
Just because a cultural theft occurred decades ago (and in the process of inflicting yet another military defeat on the Frogs) doesn’t make it right.
Give the bloody thing back. Oh – and send Phoney B.liar to the Hague along with his trans-atlantic partner (in more ways that one) George ‘Brokeback Brushcutter’ Bush…
Cheerio
GT
No, Dave, I did not do the same thing. I am discussing Muslim precedents for destruction of culture based on religious bigotry – that destruction doesn’t bother you at all. But my bringing it to people’s attention [i]does [/i]bother you. Bringing up the destruction by others is a logical fallacy called “tu quoque” – “you too!” It is used all the time to deflect off the issue, which here is the very real hazard of destruction of antiquities by Muslim fanatics.
It’s “silly” to be concerned with the destruction of Egyptian artifacts, when it’s actually occurring right now? And when Egyptians themselves express concern? Apparently you missed this quote in your haste to smear and libel me:
[quote]…many fear the edict could prod Islamic fundamentalists to attack Egypt’s thousands of ancient and pharaonic statues on show at tourist sites across the country.
“We don’t rule out that someone will enter the Karnak temple in Luxor or any other pharaonic temple and blow it up on the basis of the fatwa,” Gamal al-Ghitani, editor of the literary Akhbar al-Adab magazine, said.[/quote]
Again, what is “racist” about an article expressing concern about religious fanatics destroying artifacts, when they have a centuries-long record of doing so? [b]Islam is not a race, so, again, the playing of the race card here is not only a sign of a poor hand/intellect, it actually cheapens [i]real [/i]racism.[/b] All those using the race card to deflect attention off violent and dangerous religious fanaticism should be ashamed of themselves.
And what of my work do you know about that you used to “admire?” Was it when I was critiquing the pathology of other religions, such as Christianity and Judaism? You find that admirable, yet to point out the same and worse behavior when it comes to Islam is somehow not admirable, especially when people have been killed for less?
When you point your finger at others calling them “silly,” you have obviously forgotten the three others pointing back at yourself.
Funny stuff here. You can read everyone’s own little pet fanaticizm by watching how they hijack the arguement & try to make about this or that.
Race? I keep hearing this stupidity repeated. What race is Islam? It’s usually brought up by folks who harbor a racial prejudice against whites (which is PC these days). Race is everything to a lot of people, so London’s holding on to an old archaeological find morphs into a racial issue. Sad.
As for Islam’s 1000= year old habit of destroying ancient artifacts that don’t pertain directly to Islam, I agree that this is a concern. The ancient Buddha statues come immediately to mind. They call them idols before smashing them, so I don’t want to see too many priceless “idols” fall into their hands. As for this nonsense…
“This is all a huge waste of time, earth history and all the ridiculous idols and statues are built on lies and falsehoods. How about giving a CRAP about what is happening in the here and now?”
Did you miss all the other stories that have ever been on this site? And who elected you to decide what we should or shouldn’t consider relevant? Mabe you should be submitting stories here or starting your own site instead of throwing tantrums & spewing insults because some of us don’t share your priorities. Or you could take your marbles & go home. We’ll keep playing either way.
Shtoopid
No don’t send the Rosetta stone back, but send back all the muslims back to Egypt!
Yes, It’s A Bad Idea
After seeing the manner in which antiquities are handled by the Egyptians, anywhere would be better for the Rosetta Stone than Egypt. As far as I can tell modern Egyptians care not for the possesions of their ancient predessors( to whom they are in no way related). The only concern modern Egyptians seem to have for these antiquities is their draw for tourists, and cash those tourists bring with them . This “campaign” is being pushed forward by that scam artist zahi hawass who is only concerned about the power and money these things can bring to himself. This is the same guy who wanted to copyright the pyramids! No kidding!!
Thanks Jeanette. The whole noisy story sounded strange. For this to suddenly become a big issue after all this time made me feel that another agenda could be behind it. Zahi Hawass? Gonna look him up. A guy who would try to copyright the pyramids has to be an interestring character.
a modest proposal…
let’s compromise and break it into three pieces. the Brits can keep the hieroglyphs, Egypt gets the demotic and the ancient greek goes to, you guessed it, Greece.
😆 That rather puts the whole thing into perspective, although, of course, the Brits are not the originators of hieroglyphs, obviously.
As one commenter eloquently pointed out, the Rosetta Stone is a universal artifact to be shared by us all as a human family. And its value is tremendous, regardless of whether or not its been copied. Should we destroy beautiful women after they’ve been photographed?
Ancient Egypt Artifacts Should Be Returned To Them
I think that they should bring back all of Egypts treasures. Why? I’ll give you reasons why:
1. Its wrong to just take something from another country, and to make money of thier priceless artifacts!
2. The Egyptians buried all those sacred items in thier pharoah’s tombs because they believed in the Afterlife. They believe if they put the pharoah’s belongings and riches, they would have a good time in the Afterlife.
How would you feel if someone came to your house took something precious that belonged to you and made money off it? Thats how the Egyptians feel. Think twice about your opinions. 🙂
Seriously?
Think twice about yours. Indigenous Egyptians have been the ones to steal and destroy most of the treasures. The current Muslim population (08/2012) will eventually destroy ALL of them. Hopefully, you eyes have opened since 2009.
:confused: 😡 😛 😡 :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: B) 👿 😛 :unsure: wow1111111111
use your brains people
Someday I would like to see these great artifacts. You people act like 3yr. olds ,give me my toys back.Thankfully my dad kept many things from my chidhood and gave them to me when I was in my 40`s when I was stable and able to take care of them. Once things are desroyed they are gone forever. It seems like some non-thinking people just want to cut down Acharya. As for Islam, Mohammed was a theif and sadistic murder who created a relgion to justify his evil. Muslims have attacted US ships since 1783. These muslim fanatics would rape your mom,sister, wife and kill you with pleasure.These people are totally crazy and so is anyone who thinks they can be reasoned with. The most important thing is these artifacts stay SAFE. If we don`t start standing up to Islam the artifacts and we the people will all be destoyed. Thankyou Acharya for your work,intelect and common sense.
Arabs vs. Coptics
The people in Egypt today fall into two groups:
1. Islamic Arabs calling themselves Egyptian, but whom are descended from Arab invaders who killed or suppressed the other group, and form the present day government.
2. Non-Muslim Coptics who are directly descended from the ancient Egyptians who built the pyramids, temples, etc., and were almost killed off by invading Arabs, are still relentlessly persecuted by Muslims today, and have no say in the Muslim government.
The Rosetta Stone and other antiquities belong to either the long-gone ancient Egyptians or their still-living descendants, the Coptic people. No Arab produced any of these antiquities. Rather than giving any antiquities to the Muslim Arab-Egyptian government they should stay where they are, protected in competent museums, until the true owners, the Coptics, regain their rights, property, and government.
I am Coptic orthodox christian FROM EGYPT and I say keep it safe in London . The Muslims will destroy eventually every thing decent in the world, plus the fact is they are invaders came to Egypt in the year 640 AD roughly( give or take few years ) , FROM THE ARABIAN DESERTS AND THEY ARE NOT DECENDENTS OF THE PHAROES, BUT THEY ALWAYS MISSLEAD AND STEEL WHAT IS NOT THEIRS THE ONLY TRUE DECENDENTS OF THE PHAREOS RACE ARE THE COPTIC ORTHODOX PEOPLES IN EGYPT THEY ARE THE RIGHTFUL OWNERS OF ALL EGYPT AND THEIR ANCESTER ‘S NAME AND TREASURES . THE DECIPLE OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST ST MARK CAME TO EGYPT AFTER CHRIST RESERECTION AND TOUGHT THE PEOPLES OF EGYPT CHRISTIANITY IN ANOTHER WORD HE CONVERTED THE TRUE PHAREOS DECENDENT THE CHRISTIANITY AND THAT WAS ONLY 30 TO 40 YEARS OF CLEOPATRA’S DEATH.
Thank you for posting on my blog. It is appalling that the world is sitting back watching the last of the Egyptian people being genocided, while allowing this violent invader cult to flourish.
Shameful, disgraceful and depressing.
Of course, I wish the Egyptians would eventually overthrow Christianity as well, which did the same thing to them that the Arabs did with Islam.
The Death of Hypatia ([url]http://youtu.be/XRxmJRkcqGc[/url])
Return?
Well, given the insanities commenced since 2009, I give a definitive “no”. That is, unless one believes that the stone should be destroyed by insane, idiotic Muslims.
What?
Most of those treasures and Egyptian treasures have been stolen and destroyed by their indigenous people. Whatever we did take is at least preserved and safe.
Acharya …
Maybe, you should repost this article currently (08/2012) and see how the comments run, you know, now that the Muslims want to destroy the pyramids.
To me, the title question is rather like asking if a priceless Ming vase should be given to a chimpanzee in a concrete cage because some rich person died and left it to the chimp in his will.
FRENCH !!!
the french should definitly get it back, i mean its not like egypt was doing anything with it when they found it. egypt disadvantage: thiefs crooks and looters are everywhere and there are some in egypt, just because they might get it back and will “keep it safe” doesnt mean that somone isnt going to steal it. it will just be in a different place. BOOYAH B)
Proud Egyptian
As an Egyptian I would like to reply on your questions, you say that Egypt has Islamist fanatics that will destroy the monuments, you say that Egypt is full of thieves and crooks that might steal the monuments, I say that all of the above is not true, Everywhere you can find Fanatics not only to a religion but to an idea, and also there are crooks everywhere, so before judging a country like Egypt, please try to speak with Egyptians to know about the truth and not let yourself being drawn by the media.
I did not say “Egypt is full of thieves and crooks.”
What I did say, however, is that crazed religious fanatics will destroy everything pre-Islamic. That’s a fact – and since the “Arab Spring,” they’ve proved true to course, as they DID destroy many artifacts in the Cairo Museum and elsewhere, including burning a priceless library.
Crazed Muslim fanatics have been destroying monuments around Egypt for centuries, so it is odd that you would contend otherwise.
Furthermore, the Muslim Arabs are not the original inhabitants of Egypt, so why should they be entrusted with the natives’ artifacts?
The native Egyptian populace is on its last legs, as the Copts are dying off.
In this day and age with riots in the streets, it is difficult to believe that anyone would argue for the return of Egypt’s priceless artifacts.
LOL 😛