Gee, what a surprise! You mean science has finally proved that the Shroud of Turin is a fake? This notion has been batted around for centuries, based on numerous factors, so it comes as no surprise to those of us who are not believers in the Christian myth as "history."
Years ago I posted an article on the shroud:
The Shroud of Turin and Other "Holy Relics"
In its quest to create a religion to gain power and wealth, the Church forgery mill did not limit itself to mere writings but for centuries cranked out thousands of phony "relics" of its "Lord," "Apostles" and "Saints." Although true believers desperately keep attempting to prove otherwise, through one implausible theory after another, the Shroud of Turin is counted among this group of frauds:
"There were at least 26 'authentic' burial shrouds scattered throughout the abbeys of Europe, of which the Shroud of Turin is just one.... The Shroud of Turin is one of the many relics manufactured for profit during the Middle Ages. Shortly after the Shroud emerged it was declared a fake by the bishop who discovered the artist. This is verified by recent scientific investigation which found paint in the image areas. The Shroud of Turin is also not consistent with Gospel accounts of Jesus' burial, which clearly refer to multiple cloths and a separate napkin over his face."
See also:
Italian group claims to debunk Shroud of Turin
The shroud bears the image of a crucified man. Believers say Christ's image was recorded on the fibers at the time of his resurrection.
The Italian Committee for Checking Claims on the Paranormal said Monday that scientists have reproduced the shroud using materials and methods that were available in the 14th century....
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|2009-10-05 18:07:02 John ReardonThis is very interesting. I have thought the shroud a classic fake for may years and now I can rest assured I was correct. Your article of a few years ago was exceedingly interesting....as is all your scholarly work.
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|2009-10-05 21:36:03 Rene Scherger - The Shroud cover-up...duh!I had total suspicion about the Shroud ever since I heard about it as a young man. I read the scientific studies on it from various angles and was left with no doubt what so ever that it was a fraud. That was years ago...about the time the radio-metic dating was done as reported by JH Chrestos above. One woulda thunk there wouldn't still be any doubt over it's non-authenticity.
One more nail in the coffin...err Shroudssss. :ooo:
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So is a religious relic considered to be authentic until proved a fake or vice-versa?
How DO you prove a relic to be authentic? Are there any examples of religious relics that have proved to be authentic?
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The believer's retort to the radio carbon dating, is that the samples were taken from a part of the cloth that had been repaired by interweaving new fibers into old fibers, and they say a further analysis confirmed that to be the case.
There is already a blurb about this most recent development on the Shroud's wikipedia page. Wikipedia actually has a pretty nice summary of all the studies etc that have been done on it.
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|2009-10-07 10:31:07 Tim Lang - The Case against ChristianityYou would seem to be the person to re-explore the ideas in the famous
book by Michael Martin that was penned about 10 years ago.
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|2009-10-07 15:32:57 AcharyaThanks, Aaron. I've been aware of the counter arguments for some time now.
Re Michael Martin's book, I don't recall it. Thanks for the vote of confidence, but I think Joe Nickels and the CSICOPs have this one pretty well covered. My detective work continues to be focus on the meaning of patently pre-Christian motifs found within Christianity, etc.
I am currently working on another book, which I hope to have done by Xmas.
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|2009-10-18 11:23:41 Jason - Turin a mistake, not a fakeIt was my understanding that the Shroud of Turin was authentic, but was made with the imprint of Jacques de Molay after he was crucified in France on Black Friday by Philip II (I?) along with many other Templars around 1307. The event happened within the dated time frame and is a plausible source for the images.
So not a fake, just attributed to the wrong event.
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|2010-01-03 20:33:38 Bob FincherThe shroud is a fake as is the person that is connected with it the so-called jesus the christ. There were dozens of "christs"
roaming around the area at the time of the more popular
christ was, just as there were dozens of shrouds.
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|2010-01-03 20:38:36 Bob FincherWho ever created the shroud should have studied anatomy before he did his creation of the fake. The head is too little for the
body, the arms are much too long for the body that is
shown on the cloth; it is not humanly posssible for a
person to be proportioned the way it is shown.
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|2010-01-29 10:37:07 Brad - WhewNow we can get on to explaining how the universe came into existence by itself.
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|2010-01-29 10:47:06 Acharya SThis thread has nothing to do with whether or not there is an intelligent designer.
Just because we can rule out the universe being created by a Jewish guy who supposed lived 2,000 years ago does not mean here in this post I am denying the existence of a creator altogether .
These are two entirely separate issues.
If you would like my insights into "God," please see:
The Gospel According to Acharya S
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|2010-05-15 17:36:44 fredI am a dedicated catholic, I feel impelled to give my testimony because one needs to witness to the truth where and when necessary. In 1981 I was very privileged to have had a vision of our lord Jesus Christ in a historic church that was dedicated to St.Peter and St.Paul, I saw our Lords face, so sad.And the crown of thorns on his head so clear was this vision i could see the string of thorns encircled many times and the thorns so clear as if one would be pricked by them, I was totally awestruck and as you can imagine this vision took me from being a christian with many question marks to a fervent believer, after the vision i went to my mothers home when i went in to her living room i told my mother of my wonderful vision and was overwhelmed to discover that my mother had a copy of the shroud of Turin on her wall.I immediately said to my mother, this is Jesus Christ, this is who i saw actually as he is. It is him. The holy shroud image is that Of Jesus Christ, I can’t prove it but i would lay my life on this because it is true. I have since 1981 had many other experiences which have also confirmed to me the authenticity of the holy shroud and that it is of our Lord Jesus Christ. One day it will be recognised as true and venerated as the wonderful relic that it is, and i look forward to that day. Yours in Christ … Fred
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|2010-05-17 19:21:57 Acharya SThat's nice.
And for thousands of years, Egyptians had visions of the Great Goddess Isis - and they would swear they were real and so was she.
To this day, millions of Hindus have visions and visitations by a wide variety of gods and goddesses - I guess that makes them all real too.
Visions and the like are products of conditioning and do not serve of evidence of anything other than the individual's conditioning.
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|2010-05-19 20:14:36 fred ablittI have shared with you my testimony, just as it was, i have absolutely no reason to lie or exaggerate and i do belive i am a perfectly rational human being.It was not an hallucination, vivid dream or anything else other than what i have said. Of course i fully expected my testimony to be ridiculed from some non-believers because it totally contradicts their views, and puts there unbelief to the test, why reject something just because you don't understand that is foolish! Like i said i cannot prove my testomany.But i don't need to because it happened, one needs to look at the whole situation with an open mind which i suggest they do, to make a true unbiased conclusion about anything one must look at all the evidence on both sides of the issue. Only then can one start to make a sensible decision.
Jesus Christ said to doubting Thomas,"You belive because you have seen but blessed are those who belive and do not see."
Make no mistake!!!
With complete total and absolute certainty the real truth shall prevail, it's just a question of time, and with total conviction and full confidence in that truth i look forward to that day.
Yours in Christ ...Fred
http://www.shroud.com/nature.htm
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