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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:14 am 
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The Evemerist vs. Mythicist Position

The word "evemerist" or "evemerism" comes from the name of a Greek philosopher of the 3rd-4th centuries BCE named "Euhemeros," also transliterated as "Euhemerus," "Evemeros" or, rarely, "Evemeras."

Quote:
"Euhemerus was a Greek philosopher who lived about 330-260 BC who is known mainly for his radical interpretations of the Greek myths, which he felt were part of a long historical tradition by which the Gods were originally men, known for some great historical feat or some important social and cultural advancement and later raised to god-hood. This view was current in Greek intellectual circles and was popular in the early Christian period as well, probably as a way of defusing the idea of pagan religion."

Transliteration of the Greek name Ευήμερος

Because "Euhemeros," "euhemerism" and "euhemerist" are difficult to pronounce, the words have been transliterated from the Greek as "Evemerus," "evemerism" or "evemerist," for the same reason that the word "euangelion" becomes "evangelism." As Acharya says, in modern Greek the letter "υ" or upsilon is pronounced as a "v," as in "eukharisto" (ευχαριστώ) meaning "thank you," which is pronounced "eVkhareesto." (Be sure to click on the "Listen" button under the word. Note also the transliteration there as "ef̱charistó̱.") Again, the same process occurs with "εὐαγγέλιον" - "good tidings" or "gospel" - becoming "eVangelism." (Be sure also to listen to the pronunciation at Google translate of ευαγγέλιο and see the transliteration "ev̱angélio.")

Even Wiki concurs:

Quote:
The word evangelist comes from the Koine Greek word εὐαγγέλιον (transliterated as "euangelion") via Latinised "Evangelium"

Regarding "evemerism," J.M. Robertson remarks: "Euhemerism (or Evemerism, as the word ought to be written in English)..."

A search of Google books will reveal the use of this term and spelling as "evemerism" dating back to at least as early as 1856, in the London Quarterly, v. 6, which has an entire chapter entitled "Evemerism Fills All History with Fictions."

In the mid-20th century, Edouard Dujardin said:

Quote:
Evemerism is the doctrine of Evemeras, a Greek philosopher of the fourth century BC, according to whom the gods were men...

Quote:
The Evemerist Position:

"Evemerism represents the perspective that many of the gods and goddesses of antiquity had been real people, such as kings, queens and other heroes and legendary figures, to whose biographies were later added extraordinary and/or supernatural attributes."

vs.

The Mythicist Position:

"Mythicism represents the perspective that many gods, goddesses and other heroes and legendary figures said to possess extraordinary and/or supernatural attributes are not "real people" but are in fact mythological characters. Along with this view comes the recognition that many of these figures personify or symbolize natural phenomena, such as the sun, moon, stars, planets, constellations, etc., constituting what is called "astrotheology."

As a major example of the mythicist position, various biblical characters such as Adam and Eve, Satan, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Joshua, King David, Solomon & Jesus Christ, among other figures, in reality represent mythological characters along the same lines as the Egyptian, Sumerian, Phoenician, Indian, Greek, Roman and other godmen, who are all presently accepted as myths, rather than historical figures."

- Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection page 11-12

Never before has there been such a succinct, clearly explained comprehensive position for mythicists. You should be made aware that the mythicist position outlined above is the very first clear outline of the mythicist position throughout history. Good luck finding such a nicely spelled out mythicist position anywhere else. A very special appreciation goes to Acharya/Murdock for stepping up to the plate with such a visionary position. The Mythicist Position takes us far beyond the endless Theist vs. Atheist debate. Theism is the belief in god, for which, no valid scientific evidence has been found to substantiate the claim for god after thousands of years. While atheism is properly defined simply as "an absence of belief in god(s)." "Agnostic" is best defined as, "noncommittal." Neither really has much else to offer beyond that and the debate between these perspectives is never ending, old, tired and burned out.

There is a fourth option that actually delves deep into the origins of religious concepts examining the primary sources identifying many of their origins as myths personifying natural phenomena i.e. Astrotheology ("Theology founded on observation or knowledge of the celestial bodies," i.e. the sun, moon, planets, stars, constellations etc), taking the discussion to a new level of understanding. Faith and euphoria should no longer be allowed to trump the facts and evidence that actually exists. We need a fresh perspective and that can be found in the mythicist position.

Prior to the mythicist position outlined above, people didn't have a mythicist position option to turn to. Another important point you should be made aware of is that there is no requirement in New Testament scholarship to investigate the case for mythicism in order to get their PhD. If the Euhemerus / Evemerist position has existed since the 3rd & 4th centuries BCE then, the mythicist position should also be made available as well. The fact that it's not and the fact that hardly anybody is aware of astrotheology and its myths based in natural phenomena concerns me and it should concern you - it's precisely what's missing from the discussion. We can begin fresh and renewed with the mythicist position as a viable option.
Quote:
"Again, mythicism allows us to step outside the theist-versus-atheist box and to value the vast human creation of religion and mythology, without being either antagonistic toward it or believing it as dogma. Mythicism goes beyond the ceaseless theist-atheist debate, in fact, which is in the end futile, since cases for both perspectives can be and have been made ad infinitum, under a variety of circumstances, and since experience shows us that this discussion will never be resolved—except, indeed, in the mythicist position, which neither believes nor dismisses but which understands and appreciates humanity's longstanding interest in religion and spirituality. The mythicist position does not necessarily accept religious traditions as being based in third-dimensional reality and history. Nevertheless, mythicism itself is rooted in reality and is an end product of freethought and scientific endeavors as well as the recognition of profound human imagination and creativity. The mythicist position allows us to create greater harmony by acknowledging and enjoying the similarities and differences in religious traditions founded upon valid evidence grounded in natural phenomena."

- What is a Mythicist?

The Mythicist Position video


Why I am A Mythicist

Were George Washington and Thomas Jefferson Jesus Mythicists?

The Mythicist Challenge Petition [Draft]

List of 180+ mythicists

A Mythicist Timeline

Mythicism conference in Greece

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:36 pm 
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Here are a few definitions and explanations to help understand what we're talking about regarding the Mythicist Position.

Quote:
"Marcus Terentius Varro (116-27 BC) in his (lost) Antiquitates rerum humanarum et divinarum established a distinction of three kinds of theology: civil (political) (theologia civilis), natural (physical) (theologia naturalis) and mythical (theologia mythica). The theologians of civil theology are "the people", asking how the gods relate to daily life and the state (imperial cult). The theologians of natural theology are the philosophers, asking for the nature of the gods, and the theologians of mythical theology are the poets, crafting mythology. The terminology entered Stoic tradition and is used by Augustine of Hippo."

- Astrotheology

* Astrotheology: "Theology founded on observation or knowledge of the celestial bodies" ... such as the sun, moon, planets, stars, constellations and milky way etc. created by William Derham in 1714.

Quote:
Astrotheology: "Theology founded on observation or knowledge of the celestial bodies, such as the sun, moon, planets, stars, constellations, earth, etc."

--Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998

Quote:
"astrotheology: theology or religious systems based on the observation of stars..."

--"The Aldrich Dictionary of Phobias and Other Word Families," p. 93.

Quote:
"astrotheology, theology founded on the stars"

--"Hartrampf's Vocabulary Builder," p. 156.

Quote:
"Archaeologists are generally agreed that the dominant ideas embodied in the Roman funerary ritual came from the astrotheology of Babylonia and Syria..."

--Francis Hobart Herrick, "The American Eagle: A Study in Natural and Civil History," p. 200.

Quote:
"Astral Mythology - Or 'star mythology.' From the Greek. The corpus of myths in which stars play a role, particularly as divinities or gods in astral configuration... In agragrian and especially in highly advanced cultures (such as Babylon, Egypt, Mexico) astral mythologies arose surrounding the sun, the moon, planets, and individual groups of stars."

--Udo Becker, Lance W. Garmer, "The Continuum Encyclopedia of Symbols," p. 28.

Star-Worship (Astrolatry, Sabaism):

"The sun, moon, planets and stars have been worshipped as gods in a number of cultures. Star-worship evolves from the awe felt at the beauty, regularity, mystery and power of the heavenly bodies (especially of the sun) and in response to their effect, real or imagined, on terrestrial and human life. The sun and moon, in particular, are perceived as the givers of time (time being measures by their motions) and the sun as the regulator of the cycle of the seasons. Star-worship usually accompanies, indeed triggers, the early development of astronomy and calendrics and sanctions the parallel growth of A strology. This was certainly so in Mesopotamia in the last two millennia bce [10: i–iii ] and in Central America among the Maya [9: v ]. Star-worship probably underlies the prehistoric megalithic astronomical sites of northern Europe [9: ii–iii ; e.g. Stonehenge] and similar sites in North America [9: iv ; e.g. the Big Horn medicine wheel]. From Mesopotamia star-worship passed into Graeco-Roman culture [6]. Sun-worship became, in the 3rd century ce , something of an official religion in the Roman empire, contemporary ideology seeing in the divine emperor (Emperor-worship ) a terrestrial counterpart of the sun as sovereign of the universe. At the same time Mithras was worshipped as a solar god (see Mithraism) and his mysteries incorporated much arcane astral lore."

Wiki: Astrolatry

"Astrolatry is the worship of stars and other heavenly bodies as deities, or the association of deities with heavenly bodies. The most common instances of this are sun gods and moon gods in polytheistic systems worldwide. Also notable is the association of the planets with deities in Babylonian, and hence in Greco-Roman religion, viz. Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn."

* Archaeoastronomy: "The branch of archaeology that deals with the apparent use by prehistoric civilizations of astronomical techniques to establish the seasons or the cycle of the year, esp. as evidenced in the construction of megaliths and other ritual structures."

"The study of the knowledge, interpretations, and practices of ancient cultures regarding celestial objects or phenomena. The branch of archaeology that deals with the apparent use by prehistoric civilizations of astronomical techniques to establish the seasons or the cycle of the year, esp. as evidenced in the construction of megaliths and other ritual structures."

A famous example of archaeoastronomy would be Stonehenge. But there are countless others from around the world. You may also find examples of astrotheology & archaeoastronomy here, here, here and much more throughout this forum.

Quote:
"At Stonehenge in England and Carnac in France, in Egypt and Yucatan, across the whole face of the earth are found mysterious ruins of ancient monuments, monuments with astronomical significance. These relics of other times are as accessible as the American Midwest and as remote as the jungles of Guatemala. Some of them were built according to celestial alignments; others were actually precision astronomical observatories... Careful observation of the celestial rhythms was compellingly important to early peoples, and their expertise, in some respects, was not equaled in Europe until three thousand years later."

— Dr. Edwin Krupp, In Search of Ancient Astronomies, page xiii
Astronomer, Archaeoastronomer & Director of the Griffith Observatory in Los Angeles

* Mythicist: "A person who views various figures of antiquity, including both pagan gods and major biblical characters, as mythical. Moreover, a mythicist may also recognize the origins of these myths as being based in nature worship and what is called "astrotheology."

It's wise to be more clear on what we mean by the word "myth" too:

* Myth: "a traditional or legendary story, usually concerning some being or hero or event, with or without a determinable basis of fact or a natural explanation, esp. one that is concerned with deities or demigods and explains some practice, rite, or phenomenon of nature."

"A myth is a traditional story, especially one concerning the early history of a people or explaining some natural or social phenomenon, and typically involving supernatural beings or events."

"A traditional, typically ancient story dealing with supernatural beings, ancestors, or heroes that serves as a fundamental type in the worldview of a people, as by explaining aspects of the natural world or delineating the psychology, customs, or ideals of society"

"Myths are "stories about divine beings, generally arranged in a coherent system; they are revered as true and sacred; they are endorsed by rulers and priests; and closely linked to religion. Once this link is broken, and the actors in the story are not regarded as gods but as human heroes, giants or fairies, it is no longer a myth but a folktale. Where the central actor is divine but the story is trivial ... the result is religious legend, not myth." [J. Simpson & S. Roud, "Dictionary of English Folklore," Oxford, 2000, p.254]"

"A story of great but unknown age which originally embodied a belief regarding some fact or phenomenon of experience, and in which often the forces of nature and of the soul are personified; an ancient legend of a god, a hero, the origin of a race, etc.; a wonder story of prehistoric origin; a popular fable which is, or has been, received as historical."

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/myth

Myth - "a myth is a sacred story concerning the origins of the world or how the world and the creatures in it came to be in their present form. The active beings in myths are generally gods and heroes. Myths often are said to take place before recorded history begins. In saying that a myth is a sacred narrative, what is meant is that a myth is believed to be true by people who attach religious or spiritual significance to it. Use of the term by scholars does not imply that the narrative is either true or false."
http://www.reference.com/search?q=myth

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth

Anthropomorphism: "Attribution of human motivation, characteristics, or behavior to inanimate objects, animals, or natural phenomena."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropomorphism

Quote:
The Value of Mythicism

"Mythicism has much to offer to those who find it difficult to believe in the gospel story as "history" but who wish to know the deeper meaning behind the story. Indeed, the mythicist position importantly serves as a bridge between theism and atheism, as it does not seek to discount or denigrate the long and exalted history of thought concerning religion and mythology, dating back many thousands of years, as manifested in the religious and spiritual practices of man beginning millennia ago and continuing since then. The pinnacle of mythicist cultures—more specifically those based on astrotheology—can be seen in the massive and mysterious civilization of Egypt, for example. Rather than being ignored and dismissed, such wondrous creations should be explored and treasured as unique and glorious contributions to the overall human accomplishment."

"One criticism as concerns the mythicist position is that it has not been taken seriously by mainstream academia because it is "absurd." In the first place, what is more "absurd," accepting the fabulous fairytales of a particular culture as being "historical" without a shred of credible, scientific evidence, or suspecting these tall tales to be along the same lines as those of other cultures, such as the Sumerian, Babylonian, Egyptian, Greek and Roman, which are currently accepted as being myths? When it comes to the gods of all other cultures, including those of the ancient religions and extending to those still in currency in "modern" faiths such as Hinduism, Christians and mainstream non-Christian and atheistic scholars alike are in agreement that these entities are myths. Hercules, Zeus, Athena, Neptune, Diana, Ganesha, Hanuman—these are all myths. Therefore, as concerns the non-biblical characters in religions globally for eons, Christians and mainstream scholars are mythicists. It is only the biblical figures who receive special consideration and pleading. In reality, in dismissing mythicism, Christian believers are in effect negating themselves."

http://www.stellarhousepublishing.com/mythicist.html

Evemerist or Euhemerist:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=Euhemerist

http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Euhemerus

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euhemerus

Realize that while the word "Euhemerism" (which should also be transliterated "Evemerism") may easily be found in dictionaries or encyclopedias such as the above, you will not find a meaningful explanation of the mythicist position anywhere. It has never been a real option - until now.

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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 10:03 pm 
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Earl Doherty performs outstanding work on New Testament criticism and the case for mythicism throughout his books.

Quote:
Scholarly Opinion

by Earl Doherty

"Why is it that no individual scholar or group of scholars has undertaken a concerted effort in recent times to discredit the mythicist position? (The brief addresses that have been made to it in various publications are outlined in my Main Article "Postscript".) In the heyday of the great mythicists of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, a few valiant efforts were offered. However, both mainstream scholarship and the mythicist branch itself have made dramatic leaps since then. Biblical research has moved into bold new territory in the last several decades: unearthing a wealth of ancient documents, arriving at a new understanding of elements like Q, the sectarian nature of early Christianity, the Cynic roots of the great Gospel teachings, and so on; an almost unprecedented "critical" dimension to New Testament scholarship has emerged.

And yet the mythicist position continues to be vilified, disdained, dismissed. We would condemn any physicist, any anthropologist, any linguist, any mathematician, any scholar of any sort who professes to work in a field that makes even a partial bow to principles of logic and scientific research who yet ignored, reviled, condemned largely without examination a legitimate, persistent theory in his or her discipline. There are tremendous problems in New Testament research, problems that have been grappled with for generations and show no sign of getting closer to solution. Agreement is lacking on countless topics, and yesterday's theories are being continually overturned. There is almost a civil war going on within the ranks of Jesus study. Why not give the mythicist option some serious consideration? Why not honestly evaluate it to see if it could provide some of the missing answers? Or, if it turns out that the case is fatally flawed, then put it to rest once and for all.

Doing that would require one essential thing: taking it seriously, approaching the subject having an open mind that the theory might have some merit. Sadly, that is the most difficult step and the one which most critics have had the greatest difficulty taking. It is all in the mindset, whether of the Christian believer whose confessional interests are overriding, or of the professional scholar who could never consider that their life's work might be fatally compromised."

http://jesuspuzzle.humanists.net/ChallengingDoherty.htm

Quote:
"...As for this tiresome business about there being "no scholar" or "no serious scholar" who advocates the Christ Myth theory: Isn't it obvious that scholarly communities are defined by certain axioms in which grad students are trained, and that they will lose standing in those communities if they depart from those axioms? The existence of an historical Jesus is currently one of those. That should surprise no one, especially with the rightward lurch of the Society for Biblical Literature in recent years. It simply does not matter how many scholars hold a certain opinion."

- Dr. Robert Price, Biblical scholar with two Ph.D.'s

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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 12:18 pm 
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Quote:
The Evemerist position:

"Evemerism represents the perspective that many of the gods and goddesses of antiquity had been real people, such as kings, queens and other heroes and legendary figures, to whose biographies were later added extraordinary and/or supernatural attributes."


Taking the position that Jesus was an historical person who was later deified doesn't make very much sense in the grand scheme of things. That means that the Evemerist is acknowledging that all of the born of a virgin, miracle making, crucifixion, resurrection and ascension (extraordinary and/or supernatural attributes) is mythology and not biography. Any actual biography isn't really documented in these myths and is therefore lost to time.

So what's the point?

Why cling to the possibility of an historical person behind the myths?

The only real meaning found in the myths is the astrotheology and mystical teachings found therein and if an historical person was used to represent these astrotheological and mystical teachings then that persons life is only as important as the astrotheology and mysticism that the person was used to symbolize within the context of the mythological storyline. The person of the storyline is by all means a "myth" any which way we look at it - even if it was based on a real person at one point. If there was an historical Horus then he certainly wasn't the Falcon headed god of the myth, the Horus of the myth is clearly a mythic character used allegorically in storyline setting.

The same applies to Jesus. If there was some guy in the distant past whose life was never actually documented he certainly wasn't the virgin born miracle making god of the universe incarnate here on earth, the Jesus of the myth is a mythic character used to pass along philosophical priesthood information. I don't really see the point of admitting that the storyline is mythic but then clinging to the possibility of an "historical hook" when there's no evidence for it anyways and the historical person isn't the important part of the story to begin with. The teaching about the annual year and the Great Year and the relationship between eternity and time is the real point of the story. Robert Tulip and I have been going around and around with this evemerist and mythicist thing recently. I'm going to post Roberts version of an Evemerist position:

Robert Tulip wrote:
Christianity worked for the Age of Pisces. The origins of this effectiveness are either in fraud and accident or in some deeper necessity. My own view is that Jesus may have been a simple Galilean peasant who visited Egypt and was introduced to the secret lore of precession of the equinox. His innovation was symbolised in the parable of loaves and fishes, a vision that the shift of the equinoctial axis into the constellations of Pisces and Virgo marked the spirit of the new age. This idea is so obscure that I can imagine his discussion of it was restricted to a small secretive group, hence his invisibility to the broader world. However, this group used the teachings of Jesus as a seed, linking them to all the mythological ideas about a messiah. The spirit of the age demanded a single truth, and this could only be supplied by doing violence to the sources, mashing them together in Alexandria into an agreed narrative. However, the seed remained at the centre of the text, although itself now invisible to the builders of empire. This seed provided a hidden atoning integrity to the story, a sense of realism, and a platform to build a dogma in which the central idea, of human vision of cosmic natural religion, was forgotten.

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The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:15 pm 
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What is a Mythicist?
http://www.stellarhousepublishing.com/mythicist.html

The History of Mythicism
http://www.stellarhousepublishing.com/mythicism.html

The blog: What is a mythicist?
http://tbknews.blogspot.com/2009/08/wha ... icist.html

:wink:

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The Mythicist Position


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:47 pm 
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I really enjoyed both links. 8)

I've brought this up in one of the pantheist forums along with an invitation to join us here in discussion. In terms of the pantheists, we seem to be split between evermerist's and mythicist's and the mythicist's don't seem to know that there's an official name and title for this position, so I made the effort to inform people. The funny thing is that in the case of both pantheism and mythicism many people around the world hold these beliefs personally ( that the universe is one interconnected realm and mythology and religion is allegorical) but have no idea that there are official names and definitions for such belief's.

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The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:53 pm 
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Here are the apologist counter arguments against the mythicist position. I think that & Doherty's response is all from 2003.

A History of Scholarly Refutations of the Jesus Myth
by Christopher Price
bede. org. uk/price8. htm#A

Scholarly opinions on the Jesus Myth
by Christopher Price
bede. org. uk/price1. htm

Earl Doherty has responded here
http://jesuspuzzle.humanists.net/CritiquesRefut1.htm
Quote:
"One criticism as concerns the mythicist position is that it has not been taken seriously by mainstream academia because it is "absurd." In the first place, what is more "absurd," accepting the fabulous fairytales of a particular culture as being "historical" without a shred of credible, scientific evidence, or suspecting these tall tales to be along the same lines as those of other cultures, such as the Sumerian, Babylonian, Egyptian, Greek and Roman, which are currently accepted as being myths? When it comes to the gods of all other cultures, including those of the ancient religions and extending to those still in currency in "modern" faiths such as Hinduism, Christians and mainstream non-Christian and atheistic scholars alike are in agreement that these entities are myths. Hercules, Zeus, Athena, Neptune, Diana, Ganesha, Hanuman—these are all myths. Therefore, as concerns the non-biblical characters in religions globally for eons, Christians and mainstream scholars are mythicists. It is only the biblical figures who receive special consideration and pleading. In reality, in dismissing mythicism, Christian believers are in effect negating themselves." (bold emphasis mine) http://www.stellarhousepublishing.com/mythicist.html

Christians ARE mythicists when it comes to all other religions. LMAO!!! :lol:

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Did Moses Exist? The Myth of the Israelite Lawgiver
Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
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The Mythicist Position


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:45 pm 
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Indeed, when it comes to all other religions Christians rank as atheistic mythicists but abruptly turn into theistic historicists when confronting their own inherited tradition. I love this video series from "JezusRa" in terms of dealing with Christian Apologetics:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijtipfO9vdU

He really hammered it home on the first four videos! 8)

Apologists look out!

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The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 3:03 pm 
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Hey all,

I'd like to inspire another potential video project - something like:

You Might Be a Mythicist, IF :

- If you're burned out on the endless theist vs. atheist debate

- If you understand much of religion as symbolic or an allegory for natural phenomena

- If you feel that astrotheology just seems like common sense

- If you feel that various biblical characters such as Adam and Eve, Satan, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Joshua, King David, Solomon and Jesus Christ, among other entities, in reality represent mythological figures

- If you've studied religion in its original languages and feel even more reassured that's not to be taken literally.

Add more of your own "You might be a Mythicst, IF" thoughts.

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Astrotheology.Net
Mythicists United
Did Moses Exist? The Myth of the Israelite Lawgiver
Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
2015 Astrotheology Calendar
Astrotheology Calendar Special
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The Mythicist Position


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:49 pm 
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Sort of like, "You might be a redneck..." :lol:

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The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:54 pm 
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Quote:
Tat "Sort of like, "You might be a redneck..."

TOTALLY!!! :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 4:53 pm 
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Bible scholar takes Jesus mythicist position

Here's an examiner article about Dr. Robert Eisenman, a well-known Bible scholar, who has summarized 'The Christ Conspiracy' in the Huffington Post. He concedes Jesus to be a myth in a National Meeting of The Society of Biblical Literature, which he terms "the premier organization in this field."

http://www.examiner.com/x-17009-Freetho ... ngton-Post

So here's a biblical scholar acknowledging that Jesus is a myth i.e. the Mythicist Position.

* What is a Mythicist?
http://www.stellarhousepublishing.com/mythicist.html

A commenter at examiner says:

"I wonder if people realize the significance & gravity of a very well respected biblical scholar giving a speech at the National Meeting of The Society of Biblical Literature, which Dr. Eisenman terms "the premier organization in this field" and flat out telling them that he takes the mythicist position. The ramifications of where that could lead is infinite. It's about time the mythicist position be taken seriously and given it's due recognition."

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:32 pm 
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The Egyptians, Greeks, and Romans were masters of such man/god fiction and the creation of such characters as Osiris, Dionysus, Asclepius, Hercules, Orpheus, and the like as the works of Hesiod, Euripides, Virgil, Ovid, Petronius, Seneca, Apuleius, et. al. demonstrate. Why not consider all of this literature simply part of this man-God/ personification literature, in this instance incorporating the new Jewish concept of 'Salvation'— 'Yeshu'a'?"


This sounds spot on. Hopefully more scholars will come around to his proposed mythicist way of approaching the issue.

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The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:34 pm 
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Here are 70 authors who support some sort of Jesus Myth position. 39 are alive and 31 are dead:

Living:
1) G. A. Wells, 2) Robert M. Price, 3) Thomas L. Thompson, 4) Timothy Freke, 5) Peter Gandy, 6) Herman Detering, 7) Alvar Ellegard*, 8) Darrell Doughty, 9) Frank Zindler, 10) Michael Turton, 11) Luigi Cascioli, 12) Michel Onfray, 13) Francesco Carotta, 14) Tom Harpur, 15) Hal Childs, 16), Herbert Cutner, 17) Michael O. Wise, 18) Burton Mack*, 19) Jan Sammer, 20) Arthur M. Rothstein, 21) Michael Martin, 22 D.M. Murdock (AKA Acharya S.) 23) Richard Carrier, 24) Earl Doherty, 25) Joseph Atwill, 26) Ken Humphreys, 27) Harold Liedner, 28) Zane Winter, 29) Gary Courtney, 30) Michael Hoffman, 31) Max Rieser, 32) R.G. Price, 33) Barbara G. Walker, 34) C. Dennis McKinsey, 35) Lawrence Dalton, 36) Shirley Strutton Dalton, 37) Hayyim ben Yehoshua, 38) Brian Flemming, 39) Jay Raskin

Not Living:
1) Georg Morris Cohen Brandes, 2) John (J.M.) Robertson 3) Bertrand Russell, 4) Joseph McCabe 5) Livio C. Stecchini, 6) Thomas Whittaker, 7) John E. Remsburg, 8) Arthur Drews, 9) P. L. Couchoud, 10) John Allegro, 11) van den Bergh van Eysinga, 12) Robert Taylor, 13) Joseph Wheless, 14) Peter Jensen, 15) Gordon Rylands, 16) Guy Fau, 17) Mangasar Mugurditch Mangasarian, 18) Alvin Boyd Kuhn, 19) John E. Remsburg, 20) Marshall J. Gauvin, 21) J.G. Jackson, 22) William Benjamin Smith, 23) S.G.F. Brandon*, 24) Marcel Simon*, 25) Cita Rom Goel, 26) Salomon Reinach, 27) Albert Bayet, 28) M.F.A. Aulard, 29) Prosper Alfaric 30) Yosef ben-Jochannan, 31) Alan Dundes,

by "Philosopher Jay"

http://www.freeratio.org/showpost.php?p ... tcount=151

I'll just add 32) Gerald Massey for now making it 71 - there are many more throughout Acharya's works that I will add but that's a sweet list to start with and build upon. te, he I'm (we) doing everything I (we) can to popularize and educate folks on the mythicist position. So, I plan to add to the list.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:03 am 
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Quote:
Living:
1) G. A. Wells, 2) Robert M. Price, 3) Thomas L. Thompson, 4) Timothy Freke, 5) Peter Gandy, 6) Herman Detering, 7) Alvar Ellegard*, 8) Darrell Doughty, 9) Frank Zindler, 10) Michael Turton, 11) Luigi Cascioli, 12) Michel Onfray, 13) Francesco Carotta, 14) Tom Harpur, 15) Hal Childs, 16), Herbert Cutner, 17) Michael O. Wise, 18) Burton Mack*, 19) Jan Sammer, 20) Arthur M. Rothstein, 21) Michael Martin, 22 D.M. Murdock (AKA Acharya S.) 23) Richard Carrier, 24) Earl Doherty, 25) Joseph Atwill, 26) Ken Humphreys, 27) Harold Liedner, 28) Zane Winter, 29) Gary Courtney, 30) Michael Hoffman, 31) Max Rieser, 32) R.G. Price, 33) Barbara G. Walker, 34) C. Dennis McKinsey, 35) Lawrence Dalton, 36) Shirley Strutton Dalton, 37) Hayyim ben Yehoshua, 38) Brian Flemming, 39) Jay Raskin

40. Robert Eisenman


It seems we now have 40 among the living judging by Eisenman's quotations. :wink:

Freethinkaluva wrote:
I'll just add 32) Gerald Massey for now making it 71...


With Massey and Eisenman we have 72, a nice astrotheological number. :lol:

Hopefully in time we'll see the numbers tip into the triple digits. Wait a minute, maybe we'll get, oh, let's say, 144,000. :lol:

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The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?


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