It is currently Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:22 am

All times are [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:07 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 8:41 pm
Posts: 844
Book Review
The Jesus Mysteries – Was the Original Jesus a Pagan God?
by Timothy Freke and David Gandy
published 1999, HarperCollins

Shocking the Faithful
Robert Tulip, 18 July 2010

(2380 words)

Debate on the origins of Christianity touches emotional beliefs, taboos and assumptions. In the 1860s, conventional Christian faith was cracked wide open by the earthquake of Darwin’s theory of evolution, producing cultural fissures that remain to this day. Christians simply could not imagine that the Biblical stories of Adam and Noah were as mythical as the pagan tales of Zeus and Apollo. The backlash against Darwin’s Origin of Species produced Christian fundamentalism and the ongoing schism between faith and reason. The emotional hold of faith, reinforcing its institutional and social power, led adherents to retain the literal interpretation of Biblical claims as a higher authority than the evidence of their minds and senses. It takes a shuddering shock the size of an earthquake to penetrate the armor of faith.

The theory of evolution added momentum to the modern demolition of Biblical tradition. Geology had already made clear that the world is much older than the Biblical timeline. Psychology had observed that traditional claims of faith can be interpreted as projections of human desires. As the philosopher Ludwig Feuerbach noted, the authors of the Judeo-Christian tradition had made God in their own image. Anthropology continued the assault. Ideas previously viewed as absolute and eternal, such as God the Father, were now traceable through their finite linguistic evolution among different societies. Textual analysis found that Moses did not write the first five books of the Old Testament as conventionally believed, and that the stories of Moses and Abraham could not have happened as presented in the Bible.

These modern findings were shocking for the faithful, many of whom retreated into their faith community and regarded all outsiders as hostile. Christians then protected their tradition with the teaching of Saint John’s second letter that all skeptics are deceivers. Criticisms of faith often brought political baggage, such as the Marxist view that religion is an obsolete trick aimed at protecting class privilege. So it was easy to claim nefarious motive on the part of all doubters. The resulting polarization of intellectual debate formed into camps, with a healthy dose of economic interest supporting each pole. At one extreme, atheists have sought abolition of all religion, seeing its rituals and myths as museum specimens of the primitive history of human development. At the other extreme, Literalist Christians view any criticism as the work of Satan, although in more charitable moments they do pray for the souls of the sad rationalists.

Once one strand of the web of faith starts to unravel, the whole tapestry becomes dubious. Could Jesus really be as mythical as Noah? The blows to conventional faith from philosophy, evolution, geology, psychology and anthropology are formidable, and have prepared the ground for the assault now underway from the mythicist argument that Jesus Christ did not exist. Many Christians have got used to Voltaire’s witticism in response to Anselm’s ontological argument, that if God did not exist it would be necessary to invent him. Now we see the same argument applies to His Son, the supposed founder of the faith, with the mythicist claim that Jesus Christ Himself was a necessary fictional invention of the early church.

The Jesus Mysteries – Was the Original Jesus a Pagan God? provides a detailed scholarly presentation of the argument that Jesus never existed. As you might expect, orthodox reception has been cold. Leading Anglican theologian Bishop N.T. Wright likened their book to the argument that the moon is made of green cheese, and flatly refused to debate these new heretics. This church reaction, shunning the heathen, is indicative of the bigoted tribal nature of religion. Claims of love and dialogue are freely made by the church until they are tested, and then the true brittle hypocrisy of this corrupted human institution becomes obvious. The orthodox hope is that if they can hide their feet of clay well enough, the whole tottering edifice can be saved from collapse.

Reading The Jesus Mysteries, it is easy to see why Bishop Wright would anathematize its authors. It is bad enough for absurd miracles such as the virgin birth and the physical resurrection to be held up to mockery and ridicule, but to claim that the entire Christian faith is fraudulent takes skepticism to another level entirely. With 64 pages of detailed scholarly footnotes and a superb bibliography listing almost 250 reference sources, The Jesus Mysteries is a serious work. Any Christian foolhardy enough to engage the authors in open debate would surely lose. Sniping from the safety of the pulpit is so much easier. The flock can be protected from shock and scandal by the proven methods of censorship and slander, while critics can be cast into the outer darkness. Where the real shock may reside in this material, however, is in the implicit claim that the mythic view is the authentic Christian faith. The real shock is that with their suggestion that the literalist church is the real imposter, mythicists are reclaiming the true legacy of Christ, without the fantasy of the historical Jesus.

The true scandal is that Christianity has got away with such threadbare dogma for so long, with such weak accountability to reason and evidence, while hypocritically claiming to bear witness to ultimate truth. The lack of debate around this scandal of faith illustrates how this material touches on sensitive taboo questions. Beliefs that we form in youth are immensely hard to shake, regardless of contrary evidence. The conservatism of religion, valuing cultural heritage and tradition, means that, as Orwell observed, once a clique has gained control of the past, it has control of the future. Christians who grow up with Jesus as a spiritual friend, a real personality who is central to their idea of human identity, may experience a sort of vertigo and denial when confronted by the claim that his story is a pure myth. Surely this claim is the work of crackpots and cranks? Surely this eccentric mythicist rumbling can simply be dismissed as fringe rubbish, with UFOs, the yeti and bending spoons?

The historical record shows the real conjuring was committed by the Church Fathers. Church success has relied on the psychological weakness seen in recovered memory syndrome, where people hold fervently to a false belief that has been deliberately planted in their mind by others. This Orwellian brainwashing is precisely what happened on a world historical scale with the establishment of orthodox Christianity.

The question here turns on the most plausible explanation for the rise of Christian faith. Freke and Gandy argue there was originally an inner church that only revealed part of its secret teachings to the public outer church. The ignorant masses called for signs and wonders before they would take any interest in new ideas. The early church serviced this mass demand for a new wondrous religion with the allegorical story of a historical messiah. The aim was to attract members to the cult, so secret mysteries could then be revealed to initiates. The Gospels as we have them were written for the outer church, as a simplified and ‘dumbed-down’ historicized account of the inner spiritual myth.

As Christianity spread, Freke and Gandy argue the outer church took on a life of its own, gradually losing contact with the secret mysteries. The ‘orthodox’ soon found a source of temporal power in denial of the inner church teaching that the story of Christ was a cosmic myth. By allying with the ignorant, the Church Fathers isolated and suppressed the cosmic mysticism of the old inner church, which they branded as Gnostic heresy. In an ironic parallel with the purging of the Old Bolsheviks by Stalin, control of institutional power became a more decisive criterion for influence than spiritual purity. As Orwell said in 1984, ignorance is strength.

The mystics had taught that salvation comes from within the heart, but the Literal church needed a belief system that placed no burdens on a mass audience. They insisted that salvation is objective, resulting from belief in the once-for-all atoning blood of the suffering messiah.

And yet, despite these efforts to simplify the message, some of the mystic material still found its way into the Bible. One example given in The Jesus Mysteries is the story in John 21 where the disciples miraculously catch 153 fish under the instruction of the Messiah. The Greek inventor Archimedes had earlier used the number 153 to derive the square root of 3, via the fraction 265/153. This mystic ratio is used to produce the traditional Christian ichthys fish drawing. Here we see the cosmic symbol of the New Age of Pisces the Fishes coded into sacred geometry in the Gospel story. Such cosmic symbols are throughout the New Testament, but their presence has been ignored because of the aggressive bigotry of orthodox faith. Cosmic vision provided the impetus for the original story, but was kicked away as politically inconvenient for the Literalist church.

Freke and Gandy define the Jesus mystery as the deliberate transfer of the pagan mystery religions into a Jewish framework. Comparing this thesis against the traditional claim of Jesus Christ as a literal historical messiah, forensic analysis can examine the rival stories for motive, method and opportunity. There is no historical evidence that Jesus actually lived, so the traditional literal claim of a historical Jesus would need strong circumstantial support to remain persuasive. Such support does not exist.

The motive for writing the Gospels is clear from the mythicist interpretation. In the aftermath of Roman destruction of the Jerusalem Temple in 70AD, a believable new narrative was needed that could unite the community. The story of Jesus provided a rallying point to challenge the conscience of the pagan empire. The supposed date of Christ, generations before the time the Gospels were written, meant no eyewitnesses were around to check the accuracy of the stories.

With the word ‘believe’ appearing more than one hundred times in the Gospel of John alone, the main objective was to lead people to believe. Historical accuracy was entirely secondary.

The method to write the Gospels as a new myth derived from the widespread Osiris-Dionysus mystery religion of the Hellenistic world. The Jesus Mysteries provides a compelling explanation of how existing myths of a dying and rising Saviour were used to invent Christ as a new hero, but with the special twist that his most powerful mythic attribute was that he actually lived as a recent historical person. Voltaire and Anselm eat your heart out – a real Saviour is so much more perfect than an imaginary one.

The story of an actual Messiah would prove far more popular than imaginary Gods like Attis, Dionysus, Mithras, Horus, Osiris, Adonis, etc, especially if He assumed their best attributes. In this creation of a world Saviour, the Gnostic inventors of the Jesus mystery story were, however, somewhat like the sorceror’s apprentice, giving life to a broom that would take on a life of its own and sweep their ideas away until the end of the age.

The opportunity to invent the Christ story appeared in the city of Alexandria, the melting pot of the eastern Roman Empire. All the religions of the western world meshed together here, at a time the astrologers saw as the beginning of a new cosmic age, as the spring equinox point moved from the sign of Aries into the sign of Pisces. The cosmic brotherhood known as the Therapeuts, students of this ancient star lore, had ample opportunity to convert the mythic imagery of the turning point of time into believable Gospels, combining the perennial wisdom of mystery religion with historical anecdotes into a narrative that would render the whole fantasy plausible.

The detective investigation shows clear motive, method and opportunity to invent the story of Jesus as the basis for a new religion. By contrast, orthodox faith tells a farcical magic story, acceptable only through suspension of disbelief.

The ‘smoking gun’ for the mythicist case is the story of Philo. As Freke and Gandy put it (p136), “Philo was an eminent Jewish author who lived at the same time that Jesus is supposed to have lived and wrote around 50 works that still survive. They deal with history, philosophy and religion, and tell us much about Pontius Pilate – yet make no mention at all of the coming of the Messiah Jesus.” And this at a time when Jesus addressed large crowds, walked on water, caused tumult at his death in Jerusalem, and was famed far and wide. Really.

Fraud on such large scale seems unbelievable. Looking at Christianity with dispassionate eyes, we can see the ‘big lie’ in operation. Hitler’s dictum was that a small lie is easily spurned by the masses, but truly massive deception, when carried through without blinking, will convince those who could not imagine anyone having the audacity to deceive on such a scale.

Freke and Gandy are too polite to mention the Nazis, but they do explicitly compare the early church to the communist movement of the twentieth century. Both Christianity and communism “began with a message of freedom and equality but ended up creating an authoritarian and despotic regime.” Once you sell your soul, the devil proves a stern master, insisting that small initial lies be expanded to maintain the fiction. Stalin took Christianity as his model, selling a myth of redemption to the general public to conceal his wholesale debauchery of the truth in the interest of political power.

The tragedy is that a germ of eternal truth can be twisted, abused and corrupted in the interests of temporal control. Christianity quotes the Apostle John in blaming the father of lies for all denial of the incarnation. Against this crude manipulation, scholars who study the Gospel stories should set aside their prejudices and assumptions, and try instead to see through the blackmail and bullying and blindness that enabled Christianity to destroy ancient pagan civilization and pave the way for the Dark Ages. Such a transformed historical vision, understanding Jesus Christ as myth, may be the only thing that can save Christian faith from its steady downward slide, and recapture the redemptive message of Christianity as a relevant story for the modern world.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 8:16 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 9:24 pm
Posts: 5205
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
Thanks for doing that review, Robert. Below are some direct links to some of your more recent comments about The Jesus Mysteries from the Bart Ehrman thread where you address Richard Carrier's biases against the book as well.

viewtopic.php?p=25591#p25591

viewtopic.php?p=25685#p25685

It's unfortunate that Richard Carrier has to trash them at every opportunity as well as Acharya S. Errier admits that he started reading The Jesus Mysteries and got up to around page 4 or 5 and determined that the book was so bad that he still tells people at his lectures not to read it. He labels Freke and Gandy as well as Acharya "bad mythicists." He has read even less of Acharya's books.

Not sure who gave him the authority to decide who is or who is not good or bad mythicists. The fact still remains that Carrier has still not read the book nor any of Acharya's either and nobody holds him accountable for such intellectual dishonesty. What really pisses me off is that he encourages others to do the same. If Acharya did that she'd never hear the end of it.

_________________
Astrotheology.Net
Mythicists United
Did Moses Exist? The Myth of the Israelite Lawgiver
Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
2015 Astrotheology Calendar
Astrotheology Calendar Special
Stellar House Publishing at Youtube
The Mythicist Position


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 10:06 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 4:09 pm
Posts: 2142
I found nothing egregious about this book. Like Christ Con, some of the information could be backed up better, with better sources, but for the most part, we reached the same or similar conclusions using different sources. Ditto with Ken Humphreys.

Some people are jealous of others' success in reaching the masses and will criticize others in order to set themselves up as superior. Throwing bilious fits and making imperious dicta are signs of mental instability.

_________________
Why suffer from Egyptoparallelophobia, when you can read Christ in Egypt? Try it - you'll like it:

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 2:46 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 8:41 pm
Posts: 844
My impression is that the difference between Ehrman's so-called "good mythicists" and "bad mythicists" turns on a basic point about attitude towards western civilization.

I recall Carrier recently commenting that the New Testament can be fully explained within a Greco-Jewish framework. This is simply absurd. Egypt and Babylon are obvious sources for the cosmology and mythology of the New Testament. Israel was a tiny place surrounded by massive empires who all influenced it through contact and conquest.

The desire to promote the myth of isolated Israel has continuity with a deep racial tradition within Christianity. It goes back to Tertullian's famous question - "What has Athens to do with Jerusalem?" Tertullian saw these alternatives, Greek philosophy and Hebrew religion, as exhaustive. Nothing else got over the threshold of culture. He did not even consider that asking "What do Egypt or Babylon or India have to do with the Roman Imperial culture?" was a legitimate question. Nor do the moderns appear to consider this a legitimate question, ranging from Ehrman to Carrier, since they argue for completely ignoring Egyptian and Babylonian influences, and pour buckets on anyone who seeks to expand this dialogue.

This problem of cross-cultural bias leads to another major issue. Not only do the so-called "bad mythicists" put Christianity within a framework of comparative mythology, they take seriously the cosmology based on actual observation of the stars, and all the Biblical allusions to zodiac ages. The "bad mythicists" get called "New Age" as if this was a sufficient reason to completely ignore them.

None of this is simple. Much New Age material is not scholarly. But the febrile reaction from Ehrman etc who use "New Age" as a term of abuse suggests that anyone who investigates ancient use of the zodiac must be categorically insane. From within the paradigm of mainstream western modernity, comparative mythology and interest in cyclic cosmology are apparently anathema.

So, that is why Ehrman picks out his ridiculous straw-man arguments about Acharya, in order to place her under an interdict for seeking cultural change, pronouncing some fatuous fatwa against everything New Age. Perhaps he considers deconstruction of religious myths to be unacceptable, since our modern society is so tickety boo in every respect?

The fact is that supernatural Christianity is in a state of total spiritual exhaustion, needing complete renovation to make it compatible with modern knowledge. That requires rigorous study of astrotheology and comparative mythology. This study shows that Jesus Christ was a fictional invention. Ehrman's defence of the historical Jesus is a farcical attempt to reverse the tide towards rational understanding of religion and myth.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 3:06 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 8:41 pm
Posts: 844
In Did Jesus Exist?, author Bart Ehrman uses interest in the work of Acharya S as his prime shibboleth, his test for whether anyone can be taken seriously. Erhman introduces Acharya as a mythicist who does “not offer anything resembling scholarship in support of their view and instead presents the unsuspecting reading public with sensationalist claims that are so extravagant, so wrongheaded and so poorly substantiated that it is no wonder that scholars do not take them seriously.” (p33) He says her first book The Christ Conspiracy is “filled with so many factual errors and outlandish assertions that it is hard to believe that the author is serious.”

Ehrman is completely wrong in this assessment, which is backfiring on him badly. His prime exhibit of an ‘outlandish assertion’ is Murdock’s claim which he summarizes as saying that “Christianity started out as an astrotheological religion in which Jesus was transformed into a historical Jew… The Bible itself is an astrotheological text with hidden meanings that need to be unpacked by understanding their astrological symbolism.” (p35) In peremptory disposal of this argument, Ehrman says “there are no astrological phenomena associated with Jesus in any of our earliest traditions.”

To my reading, this basic error regarding astrotheology is the most interesting piece of cultural politics in Ehrman’s highly political book. Not only is astrology very much central to the ancient manufacture of the Christ myth, but the continued suppression of discussion of this manufacture remains a major failing in the coherence of Christian theology, and therefore a key weakness in Christian epistemology and ethics.

Having announced his crusade against astrology, Ehrman goes on to clumsily attack Acharya’s scholarship by suggesting that various debatable claims are settled, and that criticism of this orthodoxy is not permitted. On top of this highly aggressive error, he uses his inquisitorial mistakes to declare that Acharya should not be read, implying the need for some new holy index of forbidden books. For a writer aiming for an intelligent audience, this unexpected Spanish Inquisition is a big overplay by Ehrman.

He wrongly argues that Acharya is misinformed about the dating of the Gospels and the canon, and ignores her point that modern views of the New Testament as an early unchanging source are just wrong. Earlier writers such as Justin did not have access to the New Testament as later settled, a process that took some time, and the canon even remained in dispute at the Reformation, so Acharya’s comments on these topics are perfectly legitimate. Ehrman ignores Acharya's point about why the original texts do not survive, namely that they probably contained text that was not convenient for the church. Instead, he nitpicks that “there is not a scintilla of evidence to suggest that they… were destroyed after [Nicaea in 325AD]” because “they were probably simply used so much they wore out.” This threadbare argument simply ignores the entire observation that the origin of the church is very murky, and the leaders probably had good reason to destroy earlier texts to advance their institutional control. Surely early texts would have been preserved if the church had actually venerated them?

More question-begging nitpicking follows: Ehrman suggests “Acharya has evidently never read the writings of Paul. As we will see, he does quote sayings of Jesus.” But does Paul actually attribute those sayings to Jesus, other than the highly contentious and mythological "Lord's Supper"? That is what is at issue, and what Ehrman ignores. Ehrman’s basic mistake about Acharya’s description of a statue in the Vatican has been abundantly displayed as he has eaten crow over his sloppy error. Finally, from his bullet point list of reasons to ignore Acharya, he finds one small real mistake about dating of the life of Augustine. If these are the best mistakes Ehrman can come up with he really is clutching at straws. Certainly these debatable questions are flimsy foundations for the fatwa Ehrman builds upon them.

What is the real agenda here? As Ehrman explains, it is Acharya’s defence of astrotheology that he finds most heretical. As I share Acharya’s views on astrotheology, I feel that despite his calumny, Ehrman has done us a service by opening up public debate on whether in fact Christianity makes most sense as a carnalized cosmic myth in which astrology is central.

Acharya describes Jesus Christ as the Avatar of the Age of Pisces. This in itself is enough to cause mainstream theologians to go into apoplectic spasms and start preparing their new Index of forbidden books. The problem here is that the Christian mainstream has a strong emotional attachment to the idea of supernatural intervention, and a hostility to research that provides natural explanations for supernatural myths. Discussion of zodiac ages and precession of the equinox is a primary example of this irrational syndrome within mainstream theology.

Zodiac ages are simply observable scientific periods that provide the long term structure for terrestrial time, caused by the wobble of earth’s axis. They provide the long term framework of time for much ancient mythology, including the Bible. But for the Ehrmans of this world, any talk of the zodiac is irrational astrology, and must be condemned as New Age.

So Acharya’s sin in the Gospel according to Saint Bart is that her writings are New Age. For Ehrman it seems this is enough for his inquisition. He ignores the simple scientific fact that the equinox is reaching the end of the sign of Pisces and the beginning of the sign of Aquarius, so that our planet will soon shift from the Age of Pisces to the Age of Aquarius, just as it shifted from the Age of Aries to the Age of Pisces at the time of Christ, crossing the first fish in 21 AD. He also ignores how this knowledge was a central impetus in the manufacture of the Christ myth.

The shift from the Age of Aries to the Age of Pisces corresponds precisely to the idea of Jesus Christ as the alpha and omega. Ancient astrology saw this moment as a shift between two Great Years, or cycles of twelve ages, from the last age of the previous Great Year to the first age of the new Great Year. So the founding description of Jesus Christ as alpha and omega is pure astrology. Ehrman is profoundly ignorant if he disputes this observation.

Further, the New Testament embeds this vision of zodiac ages in the miracle that occurs most frequently in its writings. The loaves and fishes, appearing six times in total in the New Testament, are the signs of Virgo (the bread) and Pisces (the fishes) which have occupied the equinox axis from the time of Christ until now. The miraculous abundance from nothing is simply a parable about cosmic attunement for a New Age. Ehrman might like to ponder why Jesus lambasts the disciples for their failure to understand this miracle in Mark 8. It is because the miracle is primarily an astronomical allegory.

The original authors of the Christ Myth must have encountered intense popular resistance to understanding the incarnation of Christ as primarily spiritual and cosmic. It seems the historical fiction resonated so much more easily. That is how myths arise – people hear what they want to hear and disregard the rest. Even today, the literal historical myth of Jesus Christ has widespread popular resonance, such that authors like Bart Ehrman feel that a slapdash condemnation of scholarly analysis in this field is sufficient to address it.

Acharya S is in fact a scholar, much as Ehrman may wish to deny and exclude her scholarship. This whole debate is about cultural politics of paradigm change. A new paradigm, seeing Christ as a cosmic myth, is gradually emerging. The old literal paradigm has shifted from its default position of ignoring new work to ridiculing it. What we are finding is that the ridicule is backfiring, because astrotheology is scholarly, rigorous and accurate, and can readily refute all the simplistic arguments presented by Ehrman. Thanks Bart for bringing the debate into the public domain.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 2:32 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 4:09 pm
Posts: 2142
Astrology and the PhDs

Thank you, Robert Tulip ^^, for your eloquent rebuttal and defense of one of my favorite subjects: To wit, the origins of much religious ideation dating back thousands of years. This extremely ancient subject is what Ehrman and others are ironically dismissing as "New Age."

If studying such subjects as ancient astrological/solar religion and mythology or "astrotheology" is so contemptible, what do we do with professional scholars and publications such as these, from one of the world's best academic presses in English, E.J. Brill?

Reading the Human Body: Physiognomics and Astrology in the Dead Sea Scrolls by Mladen Popović

Egads! We had better not look at astrological symbolism in JEWISH texts! What fools we would be!

The Horoscope of Asadullāh Mīrzā: A Specimen of Nineteenth-century Persian Astrology

Come on, those Persian astrologers are just soooo New Age! Why would anyone make a study of such New Age gobbledygook?

Astrology and Numerology in Medieval and Early Modern Catalonia by John Scott Lucas

Must be a New Age loonytunes, studying astrology as a serious subject matter!

Astrology in Mesopotamian Culture by A.E. Thierens

Whoops! Somebody got his PhD for this one!

Here's one from another academic publisher, Peter Lang:

Early Christianity And Ancient Astrology by Tom Hegedus

Image

Why, that's just laughable! Snicker, snort :evil:

And then there's this little gem, from another academic press, Sheffield Academic:

Yahweh and the Sun: Biblical and Archaeological Evidence for Sun Worship in Ancient Israel by J. Glen Taylor

Now, why would anyone make such a study! Must be a New Ager. Actually, he's a very well-known and well-respected scholar - does Ehrman even know who he is? Apparently, this Yahweh-as-sun thesis was Taylor's PhD dissertation, published in 1993. E's a bit behind the times, eh?

There is much more of the same for those who really wish to know about this subject, rather than listening to all the calumny.

Image

_________________
Why suffer from Egyptoparallelophobia, when you can read Christ in Egypt? Try it - you'll like it:

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 

All times are [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Truth Be Known | Stellar House Publishing
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Live Support