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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 1:40 am 
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First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or of the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

The mention of a 'Creator' was in the Declaration of Independence not the Constitution. It's the Constitution that's law of the land not the Declaration of Independence. The Declaration of Independence served its purpose in 1776 - 239 years ago!!!

Freedom From Religion vs. Freedom of Religion Myth

Quote:
"The U.S. Constitution is a wholly secular document. It contains no mention of Christianity or Jesus Christ. In fact, the Constitution refers to religion only twice in the First Amendment, which bars laws "respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," and in Article VI, which prohibits "religious tests" for public office. Both of these provisions are evidence that the country was not founded as officially Christian."

- Is America A Christian Nation?

Quote:
"Our nation was founded as a secular government, based on the authority of "We, the People," not a god, king, or dictator."

- https://ffrf.org/legacy/quiz/ffrfanswers.php

The U.S.A. is the first nation in history to separate church and state. And for very good reasons too.

For all the religious folks out there that believe the principle of separation between church and state originated as an evil Satanic/Communist/Marxist plot I'll give you the answer to question 8 from the Separation of Church and State Quiz:

Quote:
Q: "8. Which early colonies practiced freedom of religion?

A: Roger Williams' Providence settlement

"Trick question! Roger Williams' Providence settlement founded in 1636 expressly guaranteed religious freedom. However, the Pilgrims originally were a tolerant people, when they founded Plymouth in 1620. By 1691, the Pilgrims had adopted the theocratic, intolerant Calvinism of the Puritans, who founded the Massachusetts Bay Colony in 1628. The Puritans came to this land expressly to establish a bible commonwealth, and banished "heretics" and dissenters. In Virginia, heresy was a capital offense punishable by death by burning. Quakers were particularly persecuted. People who were not orthodox Christians were not legally protected, could be denied civil rights and jailed. The founders of the new nation of the United States of America, conversant with extreme religious intolerance and violence in the several colonies, were determined to put an end to it. That is why they established state/church separation."

So, as we can see, the principle of separation of church from state originated to protect Christians from other violent and aggressive Christians. This is significant because Christians in American actually believe that separation of church and state is an evil Satanic/Communist/Marxist plot to spread atheism, which is obviously categorically false and a complete divorce from reality. For further information on Rev. Roger Williams please read this BLOG.

The US Presidential Oath:

"Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:-- "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."
- U.S. Constitution, Article II, Section 1 (Notice that the words "So help me God" are not there?)

Separation of church and state is the only principle that can ensure religious and philosophical freedom for all Americans. Church-state separation does not mean hostility toward religion. Rather, it means that the government will remain neutral on religious questions, leaving decisions about God, faith and house of worship attendance in the hands of its citizens.

The results of America’s policy of church-state separation can be seen all around us: Thanks to separation of church and state, Americans enjoy an unparalleled amount of religious freedom. In some nations, churches remain dependent upon government for support and aid. Religious life in these nations is often devitalized, and many churches are near empty on Sundays. Other countries merge religion and government into theocracies. Religious liberty cannot flourish under that system either; attempt by the government to enforce a version of religious orthodoxy foster only repression. By contrast, religious liberty has flourished in America and separation of church and state can take the credit.

Today we are an open and free society of 300 million Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, Atheists, Agnostics, Freethinkers, Pagans, Secular Humanists, American Indians, Mythicists and many others. All live side by side in harmony. All have the freedom to proclaim their views. All enjoy the right to worship or not worship unmolested by government officials or state-appointed religious leaders. All are equal in the eyes of the government.

To oppose the principle of separation between church & state is therefore to oppose the First Amendment of the US Constitution & is thus, one of the most un-American, un-patriotic, hypocritical things one could do as an American that supposedly values Freedom & Democracy. Theocracy is another type of weapon of mass destruction.

Did you know that American law is not based on the Ten Commandments?

The Truth about Judaeo-Christianity

Factoid:

We have not had a Freethinker on the Supreme Court since 1877 - 136 years ago = SHAMEFUL! Nominated by Abraham Lincoln, Justice David Davis "is the only judge of the Supreme Court with no recorded affiliation to any religious sect" (Wiki). Justice Davis served for 14 years from 1862-1877.

The time has come to truly represent "WE THE PEOPLE" of America with a freethinker on the Supreme Court bench to represent the largest minority of them all.

The largest minority in America!!!!!!!


Quote:
"Justice David Davis was a life-long friend and associate of Mr. Lincoln, and Judge Davis knew Lincoln's religious opinions and knew Lincoln as well as anybody did. Judge Davis told me that Lincoln was a Freethinker, that he denied the inspiration of the Bible, the divinity of Christ, and all miracles. Davis also told me that he had talked with Lincoln on these subjects hundreds of times."

- Robert Ingersoll 1833-1899

Time for an atheist on the Supreme Court?

* Update 11/08/2013: Did A Supreme Court Justice Just Admit To Being An Atheist?

Contact Elected Officials - demand Freethinkers for the Supreme Court and on court benches across the USA !!! We are the largest minority & it's time we are properly represented. We are also the most discriminated against.

Great Quotes:

"The separation of church & state will not survive it is not defended. It will not survive if people come to believe that the principle is not in the best interests of the nation or that it is hostile to religion. Religious Right organizations are working to persuade Americans that separation of church & state harms, & does not protect, religious freedom. Unless Americans are educated about the true history behind church-state separation & how the principle defends religious liberty today, they may accept this propaganda."
- Rob Boston

"The United States is in no sense founded upon the Christian doctrine."
- George Washington

"Lighthouses are more useful than churches"
- Benjamin Franklin

"This would be the best of all possible worlds if there were no religion in it!"
- John Adams

"Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man"
- Thomas Jefferson

"The Bible is not my book, and Christianity is not my religion. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma"
- Abraham Lincoln

"I care not for a man's religion whose dog and cat are not the better for it"
- Abraham Lincoln

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."
- The Treaty of Tripoli ratified by John Adams 1797

"There is no such source and cause of strife, quarrel, fights, malignant opposition, persecution, and war, and all evil in the state, as religion. Let it once enter into our civil affairs, our government would soon be destroyed. Let it once enter our common schools, they would be destroyed ... Those who made our Constitution saw this, and used the most apt and comprehensive language in it to prevent such a catastrophe."
- The Supreme Court of Wisconsin - Weiss vs. the District Board, March 18, 1890

"I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, & I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrits; to support roguery and error all over the earth."
- Thomas Jefferson

"In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the Despot abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own. It is easier to acquire wealth and power by this combination than by deserving them"
- Thomas Jefferson letter to Horatio G. Spafford, 17 March 1814

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb in a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."
- Thomas Jefferson, in a letter to John Adams

"The Christian religion and Masonry have one and the same common origin: Both are derived from the worship of the Sun. The difference between their origin is, that the Christian religion is a parody on the worship of the Sun, in which they put a man whom they call Christ, in the place of the Sun, and pay him the same adoration which was originally paid to the Sun."
- Thomas Paine

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."
- James Madison Memorial and Remonstrance, 1785

"Somebody ought to tell the truth about the Bible. The preachers dare not, because they would be driven from their pulpits. Professors in colleges dare not, because they would lose their salaries. Politicians dare not. They would be defeated. Editors dare not. They would lose subscribers. Merchants dare not, because they might lose customers. Men of fashion dare not, fearing that they would lose caste. Even clerks dare not, because they might be discharged. And so I thought I would do it myself."
- Robert Ingersoll

"False believing is ever the worst enemy of true doing; and every Sunday the teaching of these legalized kidnappers of children, for compulsory inoculation of their minds with the old theological virus, tends to nullify the good done by education during the other six days of the week."
- Gerald Massey

"There is not a conception associated with Christ that is not common to some or all of the Savior cults of antiquity."
- JM Robertson

"The gospel story is an artificial, non-historical work. It has been fabricated from source materials that can be identified and traced to their incorporation into the gospels. There is not a particle of hard evidence that 'Jesus of Nazareth' ever existed. Prayers offered up in Christian worship in the earliest days of the faith were addressed to 'Our Lord the Sun,' evidencing that 'primitive' Christians were quite in the spirit of Pagan forms and ideologies."
- Alvin Boyd Kuhn

"Jesus is a mythical figure in the tradition of pagan mythology and almost nothing in all of ancient literature would lead one to believe otherwise. Anyone wanting to believe Jesus lived and walked as a real live human being must do so despite the evidence, not because of it."
- C. Dennis McKinsey

"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
- Stephen Henry Roberts, Historian

"We cannot defend freedom abroad while denying it here at home."
- Edward R. Murrow

WE MUST STICK TOGETHER !

Here's a link addressing the Pledge of Allegiance. Here's a link addressing discrimination against non-believers.

Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority

"We establish no religion in this country. We command no worship. We mandate no belief, nor will we ever. Church and state are and must remain separate."
– Ronald Reagan

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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 1:44 am 
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For those who aren't familiar with the US Constitution & the Separation of Church & State, a couple good websites to goto for info & a membership are...

Americans United for Separation of Church & State

Freedom From Religion Foundation (be sure to take the quizzes)

* Everyone should read this article and pass it around: Were George Washington and Thomas Jefferson Jesus Mythicists?

Quote:
The separation of church and state is a legal and political principle derived from the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, which reads, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ." The phrase "separation of church and state", which does not appear in the Constitution itself, is generally traced to an 1802 letter by Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptists, where Jefferson spoke of the combined effect of the Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment. It has since been quoted in several opinions handed down by the United States Supreme Court.

Separation of Church & State

Thomas Jefferson wrote the 1st Amendment to the US Constitution. The Danbury Baptist Association wrote a letter to Jefferson in 1801 asking him, in short, to explain the Establishment Clause. Jefferson explained it using the phrase: "a wall of separation between church and state." The Supreme Court said it was an authoritative declaration and the principle of separation between church and state has stood strong ever since.

'A Wall of Separation'

Jefferson's Letter to the Danbury Baptists

Jefferson's Wall of Separation Letter

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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 2:25 am 
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State Constitutions:

Some State Constitutions in the US require a religious test as a qualification for holding public office:

The Bill of Rights of the Texas Constitution (Article I, Section 4) last amended on September 13, 2003 states that an official may be "excluded from holding office" if she/he does not "acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being."

North Carolina's Constitution, Article 6 Sec. 8 states "Disqualifications of office. The following persons shall be disqualified for office: First, any person who shall deny the being of Almighty God...."

South Carolina's Constitution, Article 6 Section 2: "Person denying existence of Supreme Being not to hold office. No person who denies the existence of the Supreme Being shall hold any office under this Constitution."

Tennessee's Bill of Rights: Article 9, Section 2: "No person who denies the being of God, or a future state of rewards and punishments, shall hold any office in the civil department of this state."

Indiana Preamble - TO THE END, that justice be established, public order maintained, and liberty perpetuated; WE, the People of the State of Indiana, grateful to ALMIGHTY GOD for the free exercise of the right to choose our own form of government, do ordain this Constitution.

Arkansas Constitution, Article 19 Section 1 of the 1874 constitution:
"No person who denies the being of a God shall hold any office in the civil departments of this State, nor be competent to testify as a witness in any court."

RELIGIOUS DISCRIMINATION IN U.S. STATE CONSTITUTIONS:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/texas.htm

"Why do Atheists care about Religion?" - VIDEO


Atheist video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdVucvo-kDU

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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 2:16 pm 
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Quote:
Dead Center: Florida TV Preacher’s Right-Wing Political Unit Folds

"There was always a certain arrogance about TV preacher D. James Kennedy’s right-wing lobbying group called the Center for Reclaiming America.

It’s that term “reclaiming” that sticks in the craw. To hear Kennedy tell it, America was once the property of certain types of far-right Christians. The country was taken from them, and they have a duty to “reclaim” it.

Oh, really? Where in our Constitution does it imply this? It’s not in the First Amendment, which bars all laws “respecting an establishment of religion” and guarantees religious freedom to all. It’s not in Article VI, which bans religious qualification for federal office.

No, the idea of an America officially for and of ultra-conservative fundamentalists is a modern-day myth, carefully crafted and promoted by people with an extreme political agenda steeped in religion. Hopefully, we’ll be hearing less of it soon. Last week, Kennedy’s Coral Ridge Ministries abruptly announced that it would close the Center for Reclaiming America in south Florida. An allied office in Washington, D.C., the Center for Christian Statesmanship, will also shut down.

Although never a national figure along the lines of Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson, Kennedy, an ultra-conservative Presbyterian minister based in Ft. Lauderdale, Fla., oversees a ministry that brings in nearly $40 million annually. It issues a steady stream of books, DVDs, pamphlets and other materials attacking church-state separation, gay rights, evolution and other Religious Right targets.

According to Kennedy, church-state separation is a “myth,” and America was founded to be a “Christian nation.” Over the years, I attended a few of his “Reclaiming America for Christ” national conferences. I found them to be a disturbing mix of fundamentalist triumphalism and ultra-right wing politics. (The future of those conferences is now is doubt. For information on the most recent gathering, see the report by Adele Stan in the April 2007 Church & State.)

The Center worked hard to court influential far-right Republicans. In July of 2001, then House Majority Leader Tom DeLay addressed a Capitol Hill gathering sponsored by the Center for Christian Statesmanship and attacked the separation of church and state.

DeLay praised President George W. Bush’s “faith-based” initiative, asserting it is a good way of “standing up and rebuking this notion of separation of church and state that has been imposed upon us over the last 40 or 50 years.”

He added, “You see, I don’t believe there is a separation of church and state. I think the Constitution is very clear. We have the right and the freedom to exercise our religion no matter what it is anywhere we choose to do it. We have an opportunity to once again get back into the public arena.”

Collectively, Kennedy’s groups have always been something of a second-tier operation. (Kennedy is himself in poor health these days, having suffered a serious heart attack late last year.) The decision to close the Center for Reclaiming America, while welcome, doesn’t spell the end for the Religious Right. Coral Ridge will continue to pump out anti-separationist propaganda, while groups like the Family Research Council, Focus on the Family and others continue to pursue their radical agendas to merge religion and government.

No one at Americans United will lament the passing of the Center for Reclaiming America. One less voice for extremism is good news. But at the same time, we remain aware of a troubling fact: People determined to find an outlet for their religious intolerance, people who insist that everyone abide by a narrow set of “faith-based” laws, people who don’t appreciate the genius of our Founders in crafting the separation of church and state, will have no trouble finding another outlet for their point of view."

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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 2:25 pm 
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“Religious freedom is one thing,” says Joan Bokaer, director of TheocracyWatch, a project of the Center for Religion, Ethics, and Social Policy (CRESP) at Cornell University. “But religious extremism is something completely different. What people aren’t aware of is just how deeply the radical religious right has penetrated our government—in all three branches. We really are very close to becoming a theocracy. People have reason to be worried.”

MUST view these free online VIDEOS

1. "Life and Liberty for All Who Believe"

2. "The Rise of Dominionism"

http://www.theocracywatch.org/audio-video.htm

* Be sure to give the entire website a very good going over too.

Theocracy Watch: Dominion Theology (1/5)


Quote:
"There has been a very definite determined government effort to turn us into a Christian nation with a civil religion and in return religion got money, power, special favors..."
- Madalyn Murray O'Hair

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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 5:54 pm 
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Upcoming event May 20, 2007

You are cordially invited to attend an activist training in Chicago.

Don't Agonize, Organize!

Effectively Defending Church-State Separation in Troubled Times

AU Activist Training
Sunday, May 20th
12:30 - 5:30 PM
Wyndham Garden Chicago O’Hare
8201 West Higgins Road
Chicago, IL 60631
773-693-2323

Please join us for an activist training in Chicago on May 20th from 12:30-5:30 PM. Staff from the Americans United national office and Progressive Victory will lead participants through workshops on the nuts and bolts of grassroots organizing and how to fundraise. Don't miss this opportunity to learn new skills, to meet with members of the AU national staff, and to network with other midwest activists.

The training leaders are:

Hans Johnson, President, Progressive Victory
Susan Schaefer, AU Development Department
Beth Corbin, AU Field Director
Rena Levin, AU Grassroots Organizer

There is no charge for the training and lunch will be provided. We need to have an accurate lunch count, so please RSVP today!

To RSVP for this training, please contact Rena Levin with your name, phone number, and/or e-mail address. You can reach Rena at levin@au.org or 1-800-875-3707x202. Please indicate if you would prefer a vegetarian lunch or have other dietary restrictions.

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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 9:44 am 
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Its so sad that every political candidate these days has to invoke 'god' or their church upbringing. I wonder if people would really not vote for someone based on their non Christian outlook. Obviously they might get attacked by the right wing groups but, ultimately, if they were able to push the agendas that face us every day rather than some crazy gobbledegook (!) then people might just see sense.

Just as an aside, I'm reading Richard Dawkins book 'The God Delusion' (still) and I wondered if people might comment on the idea that atheism is a result of Christianity rather than intellectual progress.
The reason I put it out there is that I don't know of any other society that creates as many atheists as Christian society.
Maybe I'm wrong but I don't know of buddhist, Vedic, South American shamanistic or other social groups that had to contend with it as we have had to.
I think its a result of simplifying spiritual concepts myself.


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 11:29 am 
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Some things are getting better in some ways. For example, the Secular Coalition are doing some great things never done before. So is the AU & FFRF too.

"The Secular Coalition for America is the only organization in the nation whose primary purpose is lobbying Congress on behalf of atheists, humanists, freethinkers, and other nontheistic Americans. From our office in the nation's capital, our full-time lobbyist and support staff engage public policy makers and the media on issues ranging from religion's influence on education and medical research to the privileging of faith groups by government. We are the first and only cooperative venture of eight member organizations coming together to improve the political situation of a previously unrepresented constituency: the tens of millions of atheists and agnostics in the United States.

Action Update -

5/2: We kept religion out of Head Start hiring.

PBS will be airing A Brief History of Disbelief starting Fri. 5/4. Two of our coalition members, the American Humanist Association and the Institute for Humanist Studies, are among the sponsors of this documentary. Don't miss it!

Also be sure to check out the, "Find an Atheist, Humanist, Freethinker Elected Official" Contest, launched to explore visibility and respectability challenges for nontheists in public office

http://www.secular.org/

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 7:09 pm 
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Religion moving too close to today's politics

Dobbs: A call to the faithful

NEW YORK (CNN) -- The separation of church and state in this country is narrowing. And it is the church, not the state that is encroaching. Our Constitution protects religion from the intrusion or coercion of the state. But we have precious little protection against the political adventurism of all manner of churches and religious organizations.

The leadership of the Catholic Church and many Protestant churches, as well as Jewish and even Muslim religious organizations, are driving that political adventurism as those leaders conflate religion and politics. And while there is a narrowing of the separation between church and state, there is a widening schism between the leadership of churches and religious organizations and their followers and members.

Conservative evangelical leader James Dobson recently said actor and former Sen. Fred Thompson wasn't Christian enough to be president. He instead chose to commend Newt Gingrich, who has been married three times and recently admitted to an extramarital affair. Five evangelical Christian leaders signed the "Land Letter" to President Bush in 2002 affirming a Christian theological basis to invade Iraq.

This week the head of the Los Angeles Archdiocese, Cardinal Roger Mahoney, basically threatened his faithful with denial of heaven if they don't support amnesty for illegal aliens. The good Cardinal said: "Anything that tears down one group of people or one person, anything that is a negative in our community, disqualifies us from being part of the eternal city."

The nation's religious leaders seem hell-bent on ignoring the separation of church and state when it comes to the politically charged issue of illegal immigration. A new coalition called Christians for Comprehensive Immigration Reform Wednesday will begin lobbying lawmakers with a new advertising and direct mail campaign on behalf of amnesty for illegal aliens.

The Rev. Jim Wallis of Sojourners Magazine put it this way: "If given the choice on this issue between Jesus and Lou Dobbs, I choose my Lord and savior, Jesus Christ."

But before the faithful acquiesce in the false choice offered by the good Reverend, perhaps he and his followers should consult Romans 13, where it is written: "Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves."

There is a more obvious and immediate judgment offered by the followers and members of both the Protestant and Catholic Churches. A Zogby poll last year asked churchgoers if they supported the House bill that would make illegal aliens return home and reduce future illegal immigration by securing the border and performing checks on illegal employers. Seventy-five percent of Protestants responded that was a good or very good idea, 77 percent of born-again Christians also agreed, and 66 percent of Catholics also backed tougher enforcement measures.

This schism between our church leaders and church members is just as broad and deep as that between our elected officials and their constituents across the country. Neither the state nor the church is exhibiting wisdom or fidelity to our national values in permitting the widening of that divide.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/05/08/Dobbs.May9/index.html

----------

"God Wants Amnesty"

Rev. Derrick Harkins of Christians for Comprehensive Immigration Reform. Why are evangelical groups such as his demanding amnesty for millions of illegal aliens in this country - http://www.lofitribe.com/category/reform/

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 1:08 pm 
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Religious Groups Reap Federal Aid for Pet Projects

"A New York Times analysis shows that the number of earmarks for religious organizations, while small compared with the overall number, have increased sharply in recent years. From 1989 to January 2007, Congress approved almost 900 earmarks for religious groups, totaling more than $318 million, with more than half of them granted in the Congressional session that included the 2004 presidential election. By contrast, the same analysis showed fewer than 60 earmarks for faith-based groups in the Congressional session that covered 1997 and 1998.

Earmarks are individual federal grants that bypass the normal appropriations and competitive-bidding procedures. They have been blamed for feeding the budget deficit and have figured in several Capitol Hill bribery scandals, prompting recent calls for reform from White House and Congressional leaders.

...constitutional lawyers point out, because the First Amendment prohibits direct government financing of religious activities, earmarks that steer money to religious groups pose constitutional risks. Indeed, several faith-based earmarks were successfully challenged as unconstitutional long after Congress approved them."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/13/busin ... ref=slogin

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:10 pm 
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G'day,

If you haven't seen this yet, I wanted to make sure that you did.

Quote:
By The Associated Press AP -

Instructor Says College Fired Him for Comments About Adam and Eve

"DES MOINES, Iowa - An instructor at an Iowa community college claims he was fired after he told his students that the biblical story of Adam and Eve is a fairy tale and should not be interpreted literally.

Steve Bitterman, 60, said officials at Southwestern Community College in Red Oak sided with a handful of students who threatened legal action over his remarks in a western civilization class.

"I'm just a little bit shocked myself that a college in good standing would back up students who insist that people who have been through college ... have to teach that there were such things as talking snakes or lose their job," Bitterman said. "As a taxpayer, I'd like to know if a tax-supported public institution of higher learning has given veto power over what can and cannot be said in its classrooms to a fundamentalist religious group."

School President Barbara Crittenden would not comment on whether Bitterman was fired over the Bible reference, saying it was a personnel issue.

"There was no action taken that violated the First Amendment," she said.

Bitterman, who taught part time at Southwestern and Omaha's Metropolitan Community College, said he uses the Old Testament in the course and teaches it from an academic standpoint.

He said he called the story of Adam and Eve a fairy tale in a conversation with a student after the class and was told the students had threatened to see an attorney."

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/R/ ... TE=DEFAULT

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/ap/20070928/tw ... e00ca.html

I sent this to the au.org and the ffrf.org

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:12 am 
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Zeus
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Would make a very interesting trial. Especially when they got to the many sections of the Good Book (TM) that contradict each other.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:19 am 
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Jesus

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Simply put, one can not establish freedom of religion unless one first establishes freedom from religion.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:06 am 
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Zeus
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True, Zenrage - I've never heard of a multi faith theocracy. Then there's all this crap about America being a Christian nation - I think the few remaining members of the first tribes might have something to say about that. There's also the fact that the founding fathers were all prominenet Masons who gave Christianity short shrift.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:53 pm 
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Quote:
December 6, 2007

Romney Speech Reflects Inaccurate Understanding Of Church-State Relations, Says Americans United

Those Who Don’t Follow Any Particular Religion Are Good Americans Too, Says AU’s Lynn

Today’s speech by Mitt Romney on the role of religion in American politics reflects an inaccurate understanding of the constitutional relationship between church and state, according to Americans United for Separation of Church and State.

“I was disappointed in Romney’s statement,” said the Rev. Barry W. Lynn, Americans United executive director. “The founders of our Constitution meant for religion and government to be completely separate. Romney is wrong when he says we are in danger of taking separation too far or at risk of establishing a religion of secularism.

“I was particularly outraged that Romney thinks that the Constitution is somehow based on faith and that judges should rule accordingly, “ Lynn said. “That’s a gross misunderstanding of the framework of our constitutional system.

“I think it is telling that Romney quoted John Adams instead of Thomas Jefferson or James Madison,” Lynn continued. “Jefferson and Madison are the towering figures who gave us religious liberty and church-state separation.

“I was also disappointed that Romney doesn’t seem to recognize that many Americans are non-believers,” Lynn continued. “Polls repeatedly show that millions of people have chosen to follow no spiritual path at all. They’re good Americans too, and Romney ought to have recognized that fact.

“I am an ordained minister in the United Church of Christ, and I believe in my faith,” Lynn added. “But I believe just as strongly that non-believers are good Americans too. I wish Romney had said that.”
(http://www.au.org)

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