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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:00 pm 
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Skeptic Magazine Critique of Zeitgeist Part 1
Code:
In this week’s eSkeptic, we present Tim Callahan’s critique of the movie Zeitgeist — The Greatest Story Ever Told.

The Greatest Story Ever Garbled
by Tim Callahan 
http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-02-25#feature

In response to that article:

Skeptic Mangles Zeitgeist (and Religious History)
by Acharya S aka D.M. Murdock

The Zeitgeist Part 1 Sourcebook includes the transcript and sources substantiating the claims.

Rebuttal to Dr. Chris Forbes concerning 'Zeitgeist, Part 1'

When will Skeptic Magazine publish Acharya's response?

:wink:

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 2:20 am 
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Acharya is awesome as ever! :D

I think she could have been even more sarcastic on the skeptic article... for example Callahan wrote about the solomon temple, trying to dismiss astrological references, and ironically he cites this passage that is full of them:

Quote:
Consider the antagonism against bull imagery implicit in Moses condemning the people’s worship of the golden calf. This Yahwistic prejudice seems to have evaporated by that time of the building of Solomon’s Temple, as can be seen in this description of the “molten sea,” a huge vessel containing water that was one of the principle furnishings of the Temple (1 Kings 7:25): “It stood upon twelve oxen, three facing north, three facing west, three facing south and three facing east; the sea was set upon them, and all their hinder parts were inward.” Oxen also decorate the panels of ten stands made of bronze, along with lions and cherubim (1 Kings. 7:28). Yet, for all the rich imagery of the interior of Solomon’s Temple, it is utterly devoid of any image of rams. Thus, we must assume that the story of the golden calf in Exodus refers, as it would seem, to idolatry.


twelve oxen = 12 lunar months/signs of the zodiac
three facing north = 3 months of summer
three facing west = 3 months of autumn
three facing south = 3 months of winter
three facing east = 3 months of spring


ten stands made of bronze = 10 lunar months of the lunar fertility cycle (gestation averages 10 months)
oxen = lunar month
lions and cherubim = cherubims (sometimes with the shape of lions) are some of the 72 angels, or "angles", gods each representing an angle of 5° of the circle of the sky. The cherubim is the division of the outermost circle of heaven, sometimes divided in twelve, most likely associated with the zodiac signs. Those are of egyptian origins too, as we see in this representation of the birth of the sun between two cherubims:

Image
source: http://www.scribd.com/doc/9360890/Stell ... -Astronomy

We should do a zeitgeist wiki entry that lists all the debunkers articles and the correspondent responses by Acharya or others. 8)


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 12:26 pm 
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I've 'tubed' a part of Acharya's response (it's too huge for a video) with links and CIE promo etc...


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:34 pm 
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vega wrote:
I've 'tubed' a part of Acharya's response (it's too huge for a video) with links and CIE promo etc...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZMis7kQM6c

Oh wow, that was quick!!! :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 1:06 pm 
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I've just read on the zeitgeist forum that the next edition of the Skeptic magazine will have a cover about Zeitgeist part 1:

http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joo ... &id=147444

Skeptic Magazine, Volume 15 Number 1
Image

http://www.skeptic.com/the_magazine/index.html

It's the same article debunked by Acharya here:
http://stellarhousepublishing.com/skept ... geist.html

I hated the skeptic mag article it was so bad ... I suspect that they even read Christ in Egypt either... :evil:


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 1:18 pm 
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I found a forum where the Skeptic author Tim Callahan is debating with the Acharya thesis, but I don't see any Acharya reply!

Code:
http://www.runboard.com/biblicalprophesyandmythology.f22.t91


And he continues here on the JREF forum:

Code:
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=136758


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:26 pm 
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From the ZG link shared by Descartes it says:

Quote:
"Tim Callahan revised his original after he read Acharya's article. I hope everybody contacts "Skeptic Magazine" and asks them to publish Acharya's response in their magazine. She does a much better job representing Freethinkers.

Contact Skeptic Magazine: http://www.skeptic.com/about_us/contact_us.html

On a side note, I recently stumbled across this video where Callahan debated Gary Habermas titled, "Gary Habermas Debates Skeptic Tim Callahan pt1." Gary is certainly doing what typical apologists do but, in my view, Tim Callahan did a miserable job. He failed in representing Freethinkers in these video debates. And now, he's attempting to attack Zeitgeist part 1 and does a piss poor job of that too. He's not the sharpest tool in the shed.

Did Jesus Rise From The Dead? (Debate)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rq64qX7bNNU

For payback on Acharya response article, Tim Callahan has threatened a scathing review of her book "The Christ Conspiracy" - he will eventually try get it published in "Skeptic Magazine" as well, I suppose. He's so mad at Acharya for making him look stupid that he will probably write scathing reviews of all of her books for exposing his ignorance."

Yeah, Callahan stands to learn much from
Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection


Wow, Callahan trashes her however he can at his forum which hardly has any members. And, I've been told he has removed & edited posts defending Acharya. So don't waste your time at his forum as he's clearly not interested in objective research.

Just when you thought it couldn't get worse, the James Randi forum members smear Acharya and maliciously attack her like a bunch of rabid mental patients foaming at the mouth in need of their meds. The moderators there also delete and edit posts defending Acharya. Bashing her and spreading lies are endorsed by the jrandi forum but defending her and attempting to set the record straight is not allowed. They are an embarrassment to the entire Freethinking community.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:49 pm 
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Quote:
You say, concerning Horus and the 12:

When Callahan makes such comments as, "I have absolutely no idea where Joseph got the notion that Horus had 12 disciples or that he was ever crucified," he is revealing again that he did not even look at the sources for ZEITGEIST before presenting himself an expert on the subject. This sentence betrays Callahan's shallow knowledge of the subject--he has no idea where this information came from, because he has not studied the subject in depth; therefore, ZG must be wrong! If Callahan had checked with me first, I could have steered him in the right direction as to where to find these various aspects of the Egyptian mythos. For example, he could have read the work of Dr. Hornung, in which he produces this wonderful image from the Book of Amduat of Horus heading the 12:

Answer: Having looked up the Book of Amduat, I found that the 12 facing the enthroned god are 12 hours, not 12 disciples.


LOL! Callahan doesn't have a bloody clue!

I really don't think anyone need address this, as anyone with the slightest bit of knowledge on the subject would know that Callahan has proved himself wrong in that very sentence, as well as overlooking what the hours represent.

Some people aren't worth worrying over. Thankfully, Callahan has made himself the fool when he appeared here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsuczs8B ... r_embedded

The guy clearly has very little knowledge of the subject he claims he knows much about - he is in no position to be writing 'critiques' when he fares this poorly in a scholarly discussion.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 5:15 pm 
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So, while at the local library today I find the "Skeptic" Magazine (vol. 15 no. 1, 2009). Just giving it a quick skim I noticed Callahan made a few changes from his online version for example, prior to Acharya's response article Callahan made this comment:
Quote:
Tim Callahan "I have absolutely no idea where Joseph got the notion that Horus had 12 disciples or that he was ever crucified."

Of course, in her article refuting Callahan's sloppy research, Acharya showed exactly where "the 12" motif comes from, demonstrating that Callahan's "I have absolutely no idea" was based on his own lack of knowledge about the subject.

So, in the magazine he changed it to:
Quote:
"In the Book of the Amduat (dating from 1650-1550 BCE) Horus is shown enthroned facing the personified 12 hours of the night, which D.M. Murdock, Joseph's main academic source, sees as 12 disciples..."

But...he continues to repeat the rest of the shallow, encyclopedia-surfing info that Acharya also already addressed - as others did in forums. He just ignores it all, as if it doesn't exist - talk about sloppy.

By all means, be sure to compare the two articles.

In the whole article, Callahan only cites one footnote to an astronomer who also writes for Skeptic mag., and he shares only three references for further reading, citing his own forum and the jrandi forum which maliciously attacks and smears Acharya's work and her personally on a constant basis. And, he cites http://stellarhousepublishing.com/skept ... geist.html - however, he just couldn't quite spell "Stellar" correctly (a. either on purpose or b. due to his incompetence based on the fact that he didn't have any problem correctly sharing the other two links) so he spelled stellar as steller.

Callahan cites it in the magazine as - (http://stellerhousepublishing.com/skeptic-zeitgeist.html)

So, if anyone looks up the link they won't easily find it. What a dirty trick by Callahan.

I think everyone should contact Skeptic magazine and request Acharya's response be in the next issue since Callahan mucked up the link citation. Contact Skeptic Magazine: http://www.skeptic.com/about_us/contact_us.html

In my opinion Callahan represents the uninformed, old school theology and comparative religion courses that maintain a monumental obstacle keeping the research of theologians and historians from meeting, based on the facts and evidence. People like Callahan represent why the information in Acharya's work never gets revealed in your typical comparative religion course. I see Callahan's article as the door hitting him in the arse on his way out. College kids with internet access sometimes have more knowledge about comparative religion. I'm surprised he is a writer for "Skeptic" - he does not do a very good job of representing Skeptics. For example, in the article under the subsection 'History vs. Myth,' in the very last sentence Callahan claims that Josephus and Tacitus are "solid evidence" for a historical Jesus, which is ridiculous.
Quote:
Callahan "So the evidence for Jesus as a real, historical personage, though meager, is solid"

Acharya and others such as Doherty, Price and Carrier have addressed the (non)value of these purported "references" many times, but Callahan is completely oblivious to all of that scholarship. Instead, he sounds like he's had his head buried in a bunch of shallow apologist books.

All in all, a totally lame article that adds nothing to the debate, except as to demonstrate this "old school" that is quickly becoming irrelevant because its students ignore the vast wealth of really interesting information.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 5:55 pm 
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Where we to expect anything more? Of course not!

Callahans articles articulate upon his ignorance on the topic. As you said, he is in no position to criticize Acharya's works, he is oblivious to the wealth of information out there.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 3:06 pm 
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What a typical idiot! He was caught with his pants down and he knows it.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 5:52 pm 
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Callahan didn't cite any references to the ZG website so people could easily find it. He didn't mention the sources/credits or transcript links either. So, folks are on their own to find the ZG movies.

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com

He failed to mention that ZG has been viewed by over 100 million people worldwide across a couple dozen different languages. Nor did he ever acknowledge that there are many points in ZG1 that he never knew. LOL, that would require too much integrity to acknowledge that there were things in ZG1 there are correct that he never knew! The arrogance and conceit of the "old school" (post WW2) religion courses will be their own Achilles heel.

I see Callahan also borrowed the Christian song "We Three Kings" from Acharya's article and added it to the updated magazine print version. Who knows what else he changed.

So, there's not one single citation in the magazine whatsoever for ZG or Acharya. He did mention "D.M. Murdock" but I'm surprised it was accurate.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:49 pm 
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Image

http://www.skeptic.com/the_magazine/index.html

This is all very misleading to the public. We should produce some sort of a freethought magazine to counter all of this BS coming from Skeptic Magazine. The public needs an actual 'skeptical' magazine on the racks - one 'skeptical' of the historicity of the Christ myth and it's so called originality claimed to be unique in comparison to all other myths.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 5:31 pm 
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That's right Tat. One would expect "Skeptic Magazine" to be at least objective - which is completely missing from Callahan's article. Or where did he ever acknowledge where ZG1 was correct or that he learned anything new?

BTW, notice how on the cover of this issue it doesn't even mention Zeitgeist anywhere at all. It says:

"The Greatest Story Ever Garbled Tim Callahan on a Christian origins conspiracy theory"

Nowhere does the cover mention "Zeitgeist" anywhere whatsoever.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:33 pm 
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Quote:
Nowhere does the cover mention "Zeitgeist" anywhere whatsoever.


Very misleading indeed. There's certainly a lot of people out there who need to wrap their minds around the Alexandrian Roots of Christianity material in CIE before attempting to debunk or negate anything. Otherwise, as has been the case recently, they will continue to publicly humiliate themselves - like "Keith Trash" for instance.

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