Freethought Nation

This miracle appears six times in the Gospels, so is rather central to Christianity. The 5000 and 4000 are the visible stars, the two fishes are the sun and moon, the five loaves are the five visible planets. Production of abundance from nothing signifies the cosmic movement of the equinoxes at the time of Christ into the signs of Virgo and Pisces, symbolised by bread and fish. Spica, the main star of Virgo, symbolises an ear of wheat. The September equinox point moved past Spica at the time of Christ. The first fish of Pisces is a line of stars across the zodiac that the March equinox point reached at the time of Christ.

Perhaps the feeding of the five thousand started life as a parable, a bit like the wheat and weeds, and morphed into a miracle because people liked it so much. The explanation of the parable is as per my last post. But this cosmic explanation is not acceptable to the anti-naturalism of orthodox theology, so was expunged from the record, leaving only the miraculous trace...

The feeding of the multitude appears six times in the Gospels:

Matthew 14: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=KJV
Matthew 15: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=KJV
Mark 6: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=KJV
Mark 8: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=KJV
Luke 9: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=KJV
John 6: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=KJV

In addition, the catching of the multitude of fishes appears twice:
Luke 5: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=KJV
John 21: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=KJV
and twice more without the miracle:
Matthew 4: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=NIV
Mark 1: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=NIV

Traditional interpretations of these passages are entirely cryptic, reliant on a supernatural messianic miracle. The question I have asked is if there could be some hidden meaning encoded in this central main miracle of the story of Jesus. An abundance of obvious clues point to this story of the loaves and fishes as a parable of the cosmic wheel of the Great Year. There is no 'free pass' required to explore the possible scientific status of this interpretation. I would be happy to analyse the texts line by line to test this claim.

Thanks Kevin. Of the six occurrences of the bread and fish miracle in the Gospels, the most interesting is at Mark 8


After miraculously feeding 4000 men and their families, Jesus contradictorily tells the Pharisees that 'no sign shall be given to this generation'. If spontaneous generation of bread and fish for so many people is not a sign, I am not sure what is. Surely if he was quizzed as per this text, he could easily point to the sign he has just performed, and say 'you want a sign, here is a sign.' Jesus instead seems to say this apparent miracle was not a sign for this generation, implying that it must be something else. He then goes on to berate his disciples for their failure to see, hear, remember and understand what he is talking about. The implication is that the real meaning of his comments is a mystery, one he struggles to communicate.

Possible explanations are that the loaves and fishes miracle is a sign for a later generation, and that it is intended as a parable, a symbolic story that points to a deeper meaning. Its presence six times in the gospels suggests this miracle is central to Christianity, but we find the disturbing problem that Jesus tells his disciples it was not a sign and that they don't have a clue what it means.

In the midst of this public miracle that is not a sign, we find an abundance of precise cosmic images regarding the Age of Pisces. Loaves and fishes are symbols for the signs of Virgo and Pisces. Over the 2000 years since Christ, Easter Week has occurred when the sun is in the constellation of Pisces and the full Moon in the constellation of Virgo, by virtue of the link between Easter, the equinox, the moon and the precession. This planetary alignment at the rebirth of the year each spring marks the slow shift of the stars in a period known as the Great Year, the 25765 year long cycle caused by the wobble of the axis of the earth.

The symbol of Pisces is two fish, and a symbol of Virgo is bread. The miracle/parable says abundance can be created from meager resources, using symbols of the sun and moon at the resurrection as markers of the dawning age of Pisces-Virgo, the age of fishers of men and the holy virgin.

Mark's earlier version of the story at 6:41, says when Jesus "had taken the five loaves and the two fishes, he looked up to heaven, and blessed, and brake the loaves, and gave them to his disciples to set before them; and the two fishes divided he among them all." This specific mention of looking up to heaven, also present in Matthew's version, is suggestive of a cosmic meaning for the story. Jesus goes on to explain that what the disciples do not comprehend is why there are twelve and seven baskets of fragments from his two performances of the miracle. These numbers are main allegories for the twelve signs of the zodiac and the seven visible planets including sun and moon.

The most logical explanation for this story is that it is a cosmic allegory, describing a new spiritual power available from the spirit of the new cosmic age, symbolised by the signs of loaves and fishes moving past the cosmic axis of the equinoxes. As well as the core meaning of the signs of Pisces and Virgo, the two fishes symbolise the sun and moon, the five loaves are the visible planets, the 4000 or 5000 multitude are the visible stars, and the twelve baskets are the signs of the zodiac

We see here a prime example of the literary trope of encoding a secret message in an overt message, with the intention that the overt message, aimed for popular consumption, should protect and distribute the more important secret message. The overt message is that the story is a miracle. The secret message is that it is a cosmic parable describing messianic identity in terms of the slow wheeling of the heavens.

The question here is how to compare rival explanations. Traditional Christians say that Jesus broke the laws of physics through enormous miracles which fed tens of thousands of people but somehow failed to get noticed in the historical record. I am simply trying to explain the text in a way that is compatible with modern rational observation. Traditional Christians have an emotional barrier about looking at the evidence regarding the cosmic story in the Bible because it is not compatible with their dogmatic beliefs. These dogmas are more about securing the secular power of the church than supporting genuine understanding and enquiry. My explanation of the loaves and fishes shows a possible and likely meaning in the bizarre dialogue in Mark 8 that I quoted above where Jesus despairs about why his disciples don't understand the numbers seven and twelve. The story is a parable for the cosmic redemption through the Great Year, not a historic record of events. If all the Bible is analysed through this lens it starts to make perfect sense, including the prediction of 'the end of the age' as applying to the cosmic framework of precession of the equinox.

Who is really confused here? Stahrwe tries to support ‘what the Bible says’, but this leads him to a literal reading of miracles, and the claim that the Bible shows that God contradicts the laws of physics.

I say everything true in the Bible must be compatible with the laws of physics. Against this rational lens, we find there is no proof for the existence of Jesus Christ as described in the Bible, and that the most parsimonious and elegant explanation is that a hidden cosmic religion is concealed within the surface story of the Gospels. ‘Parsimony’ is a scientific term, meaning “ the use of the simplest or most frugal route of explanation available”. Parsimony is closely linked to elegance, for example in a proof that is “surprisingly simple yet effective and constructive” or a solution that “uses a non-obvious method to produce a solution which is highly effective and simple. An elegant solution may solve multiple problems at once, especially problems not thought to be inter-related.”

Why is the cosmic story only in code? From Exodus, the high priest of Israel wore a breastpiece that Josephus and Philo say represented the twelve signs of the zodiac. However, as Israel came in conflict with pagan religion, prophets opposed worship of the hosts of heaven, separating Yahweh from nature. Jesus stood in continuity with the esoteric tradition of the high priest breastplate that sees God as revealed in the zodiac, but this core message of salvation was suppressed in the political battle between Judeo-Christian monotheism and pagan polytheism.

Reading the New Testament with a view to finding cosmic references produces a great abundance of coherent references that are based on observation of precession of the equinox, linking the Age of Pisces to the history of the church and the Age of Aquarius to the Second Coming.

As we do not know if Jesus really lived, we cannot know if the Aquarian Christ, due in 2150, will be the first incarnation or the second. If Jesus lived in Palestine at the BC/AD turning point, the Aquarian Christ will be a second incarnation. If Jesus was an invention, the Aquarian Christ will be a first incarnation, compatible with the Jewish refusal to accept the messianic status of Jesus.

This cosmic interpretation provides a parsimonious and elegant reading of the Bible, opening a path to restore the dignity and meaning of the book. The real confusion rests in the literal apologist claim that God works in ways other than through the laws of physics.So Stahrwe, you wish to remain among the rabble, denying the existence of any higher wisdom in gnosis. This has been a useful and effective church tactic to mobilise the faithful against the rational. Belief in miracles is central to this deceptive delusory church doctrine. Miracles are not possible.

You deny, astoundingly, that the loaves and fishes story contains hidden meaning. Jesus himself says in this passage at Mark 8:21 “How is it that ye do not understand?” indicating that there is a hidden meaning, so there is a dose of rhetoric in your assertion that Jesus himself is “obviously’ wrong.

You are saying ‘a fish is just a fish’ and ‘loaves are just loaves’. This is despite the objective fact that these are symbols of Pisces and Virgo, the equinoctial signs of the fishes and the virgin, which became central symbols of the church. Somehow, despite the clear instruction of Christ that parables are told to convey hidden meaning, Stahrwe says the miracle of the loaves and fishes has no hidden meaning. Of course, just like communion, bread is just bread and has no symbolic meaning. Except that the equinox has moved through the sign of bread (Virgo) since the time of Christ, and the explanation of the Age used throughout the New Testament means only the Zodiacal Age, consistent with ancient hidden Jewish tradition. The zodiac signs on the High Priest breastplate appear again in the holy city of new Jerusalem in the Revelation, where they are the twelve foundation stones of the holy city starting at Pisces and going through to Aries, just like the Great Year.

Hello Robert,

You seem to have more patience for this stahrwe than I would have. His tactical evasiveness to astrotheology and anything to do with Acharya speaks to his weaknesses in the subject so I'd keep the pressure on him there. Otherwise he'll pull you off into some lame debate topic and play stupid about there being no allegories or hidden meanings to anything yet be himself convinced he's in Plato's cave or a star trek hollo deck simulation. For god surely does not dwell here in these physics. He is outside all physics by stahwe's account. Absurd and highly unlikely and not a person I'd choose to debate with because when pressed on a hard question he'll escape to an answer that is outside of physics and things that are unknowable. He'll always put god in the gaps and ground the infinite regression with his superhero and override logic and reason by appealing to emotion and fear all the while escaping physics by pretending it is so easily avoided.

Hi Tat,

Yes, I'm surprised too that PJ didn't include the allegory of the loaves and fishes into the zeitgeist movie as that's another good reference to astrotheology in the bible. I think all of this information should be run on PBS and the discovery channel and history channel every sunday as a counter to all the religious programming. Just think how quickly things would change if every sunday people were presented the mythicist information during primetime tv. Alas, luckily we have the internet and the word is getting out there. I can't in good concious live under a self imposed delusion that the numbers so abundant and repetitive in the bible are meaningless and trivial when you learn the real meaning behind them. It doesn't take that much of a leap of faith at all to understand where these not so hidden meanings come from if one just does a bit of honest investigating. Thanks to Murdock and her books she has done a lot of the work for those seeking truth. People can start with one of her free ebooks and ease into it. I think the latest one of her free ebooks, "Zeitgeist Sourcebook" is a great place to start.

Robert, I haven't read that book by Hancock but I've watched their videos on the sphinx which I thought were very good.

All this talk about fishes and coded messeges for a future generation reminds me of the post from Descartes about Jesus as the pythagorean theorem. I'm curious as to why you never commented in that thread since it' seems so loaded with vesica piscis symbolism information?

I just want to add that I was pretty skeptical of all sacred geometry thing until I discovered this. I know how easy is to find correlations in images, numbers or architecture.

In researching the truth we need a strong heuristic and require that any thesis is backed by MULTIPLE, SOLID, UNBIASED and INDEPENDENT sources.

My thesis is behaving well so far:

MULTIPLE: all four gospels directly, the christian bishop St. Irenæus (2nd century AD - c. 202) discusses at length the Gnostic numerical interpretation of the holy name Jesus as the equivalent of 888 (Haer., I, viii, 5 and 12, and II, xxxiv, 4), historians like Plutarch, Iamblichus and others link the sacred triangle, the pythagorean school, the egyptian sun gods and the allegoric stories like that of the 153 fishes. We got gnostic sources worshipping the number 888, like Magus: "Blessed be the invisible 888, eternal and ungenerated, uncontainable and without companion. Blessed be the Holy Sophia, who created Desire by her longing for the 888. Blessed be the 888, the Limit and the Cross, who purifies the Mother and awaits the Daughter."

SOLID: We have the original gospels papyri written in greek, the writing of Iraneus, Plutarch and Iamblichus in the greek original and in latin. We have the repeated mathematical pattern of the name Jesus Christ, matching that of the pythagorean triangle, a very unlikely occurence. We found the sacred triangular pattern and the 37° angle in the catholic churches and cathedrals built by the catholic church itself.

UNBIASED: the majority of sources are unbiased. The gospels are the original source of christianity. Irenæus had nothing against christianity, and Plutarch didn't even know it yet. The cathedrals with all the numerical and geometrical patterns referring to the sacred triad and the vesica piscis were built by the catholic church itself. All Egyptian monuments and drawings were pre-christians. The only potentially biased writer is Iamblichus, being a pythagorean and a neo-platonic.

INDEPENDENT: Plutarch never read gospels because they didn't existed yet. Egyptian monuments and drawings predate christianity by millennia. The pythagorean doctrine originated with the figure of "Pythagoras the Samian", or simply Ὁ Πυθαγόρας; born between 580 and 572 BC, died between 500 and 490 BC, well before christianity. Archimedes confirms that the "measurement of the fish" value was 153 (Archimedes of Syracuse, On the Measurement of the Circle).

Here is the original greek of the passage of Irenaeus about the value 888 in the name of Jesus:


source: link

Interesting enough in the greek even if Irenaeus said that the value of the name of jesus is 888 he uses an abbreviated form of the name of jesus, ιησου , that value 688 and not 888 like in the regular Jesus greek name (Ιησους).

This abbreviated form is found in the gospels in some passages, like in Mat 1:1 , see the original text here:

http://www.biblewheel.com/Gr/GR_Databas ... m=1&vnum=1

but it is always near a different spelling of the word Christ, χριστου, that amount to gematria 1680 instead of the regular value of 1480 (Χριστος), we found for example in: Mat 1:16 , see:

http://www.biblewheel.com/Gr/GR_Databas ... =1&vnum=16

But if you sum both versions you got the same gematric value:

Jesus + Christ (full) = Ιησους + Χριστος = 888 + 1480 = 2368
Jesus + Christ (abbreviated) = ιησου + χριστου = 688 + 1680 = 2368

So the abbreviated version of the name of Jesus used by Irenaeus was an alternative abbreviated spelling of the original name Ιησους, that Irenaeus himself confirms being of value 888.

That's a good way of looking at it. It's very true that these political and social changes are made by them, not the stars, but then again they tend to base the timing and mode of their political and social changes accordingly with the stars. They seem to be concerned with the changing of the "ages" and the new age of Aquarius to come - as well as this 'great task' they have to accomplish. The thing is, if the elite are making changes based on the symbolism of ancient lore concerning the stars, well then the stars are in fact having an effect on the earth via the elite making very conscious social and political changes according to the star positions of the heavens. The stars are effecting life on earth after all in this sense.

When the sun crossed over into the first fish of Pisces, changes were made here on the earth in keeping with that astrological change. The first cosmic winter sign of precession became dominant in the sky and then coincidentally society fell into the depths of the dark ages in keeping with the "as above so below" philosophy of old. Granted, the elite may have consciously and intentionally 'caused' the dark ages to come into fruition, but they did so in keeping with what they saw happening above in the sky. It's not as if we entered the first cosmic winter sign of precession and then the elite 'caused' a time of high knowledge, wealth, and prosperity, and longer life spans for all, the very opposite occurred in keeping with ancient lore surrounding the Great Year and it's 'cosmic winter'.

What I'm looking at here is that the allegories, which are meant to be understood by the elite and not the average joe, point directly at the time frame of 2150 CE (Aquarius-Leo) through symbolism and emphasize dramatic change aimed at that time frame and there may be those who have plans to act accordingly, hence a reason for why some speak of a future reconciliation and yet they're seemingly waiting around and dragging their feet in certain cases:



This sounds like someone in the 'know' speaking about the changes that will be made on the earth around "the very end of the age" (Pisces-Aquarius cusp).

All this talk about fishes and coded messeges for a future generation reminds me of the post from Descartes about Jesus as the pythagorean theorem.

How could I've missed it! According to gematria:

Moses = משה = 345

So in the Bible we have:

Exo 3:14 - And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

MOSES name is 345
and God's name ("I AM THAT I AM" = אהיה אשר אהיה ) is 21+501+21 = 543

345-543

..god's secret name is the very mirror reflection of Moses name gematric value! The pythagorean triple 3, 4, 5 is then used as a symbol of a god-like man, having mastered the supreme law of mathematics. Another proof that Moses is not an historical character but a symbolic one.

And this is even better:

345+543 = 888 (greek gematria for Jesus, Ιησους)



...Jesus Christ is not only a solar deity, but he incorporates the most important rule of the sacred geometry used by astronomers to measure and by architects to build: The Pythagorean Theorem...

I've made another interesting discovery. I was asking myself: why if the alexandrinians coded the holy pythagorean triangle in the name Jesus Christ, the most recurrent symbol associated with Jesus is the Vesica Piscis?

After a while I discovered that the Vesica Piscis is needed to the geometric
construction of the holy triangle! Let me explain...

The pythagorean school used only the square and the compass to draw their geometric figures. The vesica piscis was one of the most important tool because it allow to draw lines that are perpendicular (ortogonal) to each others.

Originally a primitive compass (sometimes made by a stick and a rope) was also used to found the north-south axis in drawing the four reference points around the solar gnomons sundials:





Repeated for many circles, it can be used to create a pattern useful for drawing perfect geometric figures:





The vesica piscis is also the grid used to draw the kabalistic sephiroth tree or the tree of life:



And the common rombus floor in churches is also based on the vesica piscis proportions:



And it can be used to form a reptilian eye shape:



Jesus is often depicted in the Vesica Piscis:










And many christian cathedrals are built using the vesica piscis proportions, like the Cathedral of Beauvais:



Even the christian symbol of the fish is based on the vesica piscis:



And the zodiacal sign of the fishes, the sign where the sun god jesus christ
rises at the spring equinox in the age of the fishes, got a new symbol using the vesica piscis as the basis:



At the Mary Chapel of Glastonsuby Abbey (the abbey where, as we said, are encoded the proportions of the gematria of "You Have Known Jesus Christ" aka the holy triangle 3 4 5), we found the vesica piscis proportions:





THE SOLUTION TO THE ENIGMA

So, what is the connection between the pythagorean holy triangle 3 4 5 of Jesus Christ and the Vesica Piscis? Let's start with the vesica piscis:



If we use the following geometric construction, we can build the holy pythagorean triangle from the vesica piscis in few steps and with only square and compass:



The key of the constructon is the cross formed in the circle in the right (but you can do it in the left circle, is the same result). That cross is very particular, and it is the cross with the proportions used by many church crosses and even by the logo of the chatolic prelature Opus Dei:



You can also see how the "Holy Grail", the mythical gold cup filled with the blood of jesus, was nothing more than a reference to a shape inside the vesica piscis construction of the Jesus Christ triangle 3 4 5:



In freemasonry we found the vesica piscis directly linked to the pythagorean theorem:



And of course right in the middle of the Washington gnomon obelisk we found the vesica piscis, but probably as a reference to the construction of the ancient gnomon circle for the sundial as shown at the beginning of this post:

All this talk about fishes and coded messages for a future generation reminds me of the post from Descartes about Jesus as the pythagorean theorem. I'm curious as to why you never commented in that thread since it seems so loaded with vesica piscis symbolism information?

Looking at the history of religion, the Gospels and Revelation are decisive texts in bringing the Great Year into human awareness. However, due to the fallen nature of human culture, the cosmic message at the heart of Christianity has been utterly smothered by error and delusion. Restoration of cosmic vision is central to the emerging path of ascending spiritual awareness.