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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:27 pm 
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Here's another neat myth from ancient Sumeria:

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Debate between Winter and Summer

The Debate between Winter and Summer or Myth of Emesh and Enten is a Sumerian creation myth, written on clay tablets in the mid to late 3rd millennium BC....

The story takes the form of a contest poem between two cultural entities first identified by Kramer as vegetation gods, Emesh and Enten. These were later identified with the natural phenomena of Winter and Summer. The location and occasion of the story is described in the introduction with the usual creation sequence of day and night, food and fertility, weather and seasons and sluice gates for irrigation....

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:56 pm 
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Here's some more on the subject of ancient astrotheology, with a focus on Saturn, among others. This passage is from Diodorus Siculus's Historical Library, book 2 (Booth translation p. 126). This Greek book was composed in the first century BCE and contains very important information, although one must understand that Diodorus writes in the mentality of the time, which was not scrupulous about separating historical fact from mythological fiction. He does, however, apparently represent the beliefs of the era, rather than simply making them up on his own.

The Chaldeans about whom Diodorus writes were essentially Babylonian priests said to have wandered around the Levant and elsewhere, into Egypt. Their language and culture by the time of Diodorus are now styled "Syriac" or "Aramaic." The Jewish priesthood learned much from the Chaldeans, including, evidently, the esteem for Saturn.

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Here's the relevant Greek (Diodori Bibliotheca Historica, Vol 1-2. Diodorus Siculus. Immanel Bekker. Ludwig Dindorf. Friedrich Vogel. in aedibus B. G. Teubneri. Leipzig. 1888-1890):

Quote:
οἱ δ᾽ οὖν Χαλδαῖοι τὴν μὲν τοῦ κόσμου φύσιν ἀίδιόν φασιν εἶναι καὶ μήτε ἐξ ἀρχῆς γένεσιν ἐσχηκέναι μήθ᾽ ὕστερον φθορὰν ἐπιδέξεσθαι, τὴν δὲ τῶν ὅλων τάξιν τε καὶ διακόσμησιν θείᾳ τινὶ προνοίᾳ γεγονέναι, καὶ νῦν ἕκαστα τῶν ἐν οὐρανῷ γινομένων οὐχ ὡς ἔτυχεν οὐδ᾽ αὐτομάτως ἀλλ᾽ ὡρισμένῃ τινὶ καὶ βεβαίως κεκυρωμένῃ θεῶν κρίσει συντελεῖσθαι. [2] τῶν δ᾽ ἄστρων πολυχρονίους παρατηρήσεις πεποιημένοι, καὶ τὰς ἑκάστου κινήσεις τε καὶ δυνάμεις ἀκριβέστατα πάντων ἀνθρώπων ἐπεγνωκότες, πολλὰ τῶν μελλόντων συμβαίνειν προλέγουσι τοῖς ἀνθρώποις. [3] μεγίστην δέ φασιν εἶναι θεωρίαν καὶ δύναμιν περὶ τοὺς πέντε ἀστέρας τοὺς πλάνητας καλουμένους, οὓς ἐκεῖνοι κοινῇ μὲν ἑρμηνεῖς ὀνομάζουσιν, ἰδίᾳ δὲ τὸν ὑπὸ τῶν Ἑλλήνων Κρόνον ὀνομαζόμενον, ἐπιφανέστατον δὲ καὶ πλεῖστα καὶ μέγιστα προσημαίνοντα, καλοῦσιν ἡλίου: τοὺς δ᾽ ἄλλους τέτταρας ὁμοίως τοῖς παρ᾽ ἡμῖν ἀστρολόγοις ὀνομάζουσιν, [4] Ἄρεος, Ἀφροδίτης, Ἑρμοῦ, Διός. διὰ τοῦτο δ᾽ αὐτοὺς ἑρμηνεῖς καλοῦσιν, ὅτι τῶν ἄλλων ἀστέρων ἀπλανῶν ὄντων καὶ τεταγμένῃ πορείᾳ μίαν περιφορὰν ἐχόντων οὗτοι μόνοι πορείαν ἰδίαν ποιούμενοι [p. 220] τὰ μέλλοντα γίνεσθαι δεικνύουσιν, ἑρμηνεύοντες τοῖς ἀνθρώποις τὴν τῶν θεῶν ἔννοιαν. τὰ μὲν γὰρ διὰ τῆς ἀνατολῆς, τὰ δὲ διὰ τῆς δύσεως, τινὰ δὲ διὰ τῆς χρόας προσημαίνειν φασὶν αὐτοὺς τοῖς προσέχειν ἀκριβῶς βουληθεῖσι: [5] ποτὲ μὲν γὰρ πνευμάτων μεγέθη δηλοῦν αὐτούς, ποτὲ δὲ ὄμβρων ἢ καυμάτων ὑπερβολάς, ἔστι δὲ ὅτε κομητῶν ἀστέρων ἐπιτολάς, ἔτι δὲ ἡλίου τε καὶ σελήνης ἐκλείψεις, καὶ σεισμούς, καὶ τὸ σύνολον πάσας τὰς ἐκ τοῦ περιέχοντος γεννωμένας περιστάσεις ὠφελίμους τε καὶ βλαβερὰς οὐ μόνον ἔθνεσιν ἢ τόποις, ἀλλὰ καὶ βασιλεῦσι καὶ τοῖς τυχοῦσιν ἰδιώταις. [6] ὑπὸ δὲ τὴν τούτων φορὰν λέγουσι τετάχθαι τριάκοντα ἀστέρας, οὓς προσαγορεύουσι βουλαίους θεούς: τούτων δὲ τοὺς μὲν ἡμίσεις τοὺς ὑπὲρ γῆν τόπους ἐφορᾶν, τοὺς δ᾽ ἡμίσεις τοὺς ὑπὸ τὴν γῆν, τὰ κατ᾽ ἀνθρώπους ἐπισκοποῦντας ἅμα καὶ τὰ κατὰ τὸν οὐρανὸν συμβαίνοντα: διὰ δ᾽ ἡμερῶν δέκα πέμπεσθαι τῶν μὲν ἄνω πρὸς τοὺς κάτω καθάπερ ἄγγελον ἕνα τῶν ἀστέρων, τῶν δ᾽ ὑπὸ γῆν πρὸς τοὺς ἄνω πάλιν ὁμοίως ἕνα, καὶ ταύτην ἔχειν αὐτοὺς φορὰν ὡρισμένην καὶ περιόδῳ κεκυρωμένην αἰωνίῳ. [7] τῶν θεῶν δὲ τούτων κυρίους εἶναί φασι δώδεκα τὸν ἀριθμόν, ὧν ἑκάστῳ μῆνα καὶ τῶν δώδεκα λεγομένων ζῳδίων ἓν προσνέμουσι. διὰ δὲ τούτων φασὶ ποιεῖσθαι τὴν πορείαν τόν τε ἥλιον καὶ τὴν σελήνην καὶ πέντε τοὺς πλάνητας ἀστέρας, τοῦ μὲν ἡλίου τὸν [p. 221] ἴδιον κύκλον ἐν ἐνιαυτῷ τελοῦντος, τῆς δὲ σελήνης ἐν μηνὶ τὴν ἰδίαν περίοδον διαπορευομένης.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:52 am 
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Here is the mother load of archaeoastronomy studies!

The book is a revision of a work from 2005 that came out in 2011. The previous edition was entitled, Exploring Ancient Skies: An Encyclopedic Survey of Archaeoastronomy.

Exploring Ancient Skies: A Survey of Ancient and Cultural Astronomy
by David H. Kelley, Eugene F. Milone

Here's the book description from Amazon:

Quote:
Exploring Ancient Skies brings together the methods of archaeology and the insights of modern astronomy to explore the science of astronomy as it was practiced in various cultures prior to the invention of the telescope. The book reviews an enormous and growing body of literature on the cultures of the ancient Mediterranean, the Far East, and the New World (particularly Mesoamerica), putting the ancient astronomical materials into their archaeological and cultural contexts. The authors begin with an overview of the field and proceed to essential aspects of naked-eye astronomy, followed by an examination of specific cultures. The book concludes by taking into account the purposes of ancient astronomy: astrology, navigation, calendar regulation, and (not least) the understanding of our place and role in the universe. Skies are recreated to display critical events as they would have appeared to ancient observers--events such as the supernova of 1054 A.D., the "lion horoscope," and the Star of Bethlehem. Exploring Ancient Skies provides a comprehensive overview of the relationships between astronomy and other areas of human investigation. It will be useful as a reference for scholars and as a text for students in both astronomy and archaeology, and will be of compelling interest to readers who seek a broad understanding of our collective intellectual history.

I'm seeing the "Star of Bethlehem" here and thinking, uh-oh - best take that "research" with a grain of salt, unless it's debunking that old recycled mythical motif, which is doubtful since Western media loves to pander to Christianity...

I knew it:

Quote:
Simulations of conjunctions of Venus and Jupiter, noteworthy candidates for the Star of Bethlehem.

Gack. Only those oblivious to the ancient mythological motif of the star at the births of Osiris (Orion), various kings and other deities and savior gods, godmen and heroes would even try to find a "historical" event for this patently mythical theme. Without knowledge of ancient mythology, our great scholars often sound lacking in insight and, dare I say, rather childish.

The "Star in the East" motif was quite common in antiquity vis-a-vis the story of Osiris and the flooding of the Nile. The tale was told every year, which is undoubtedly why it was incorporated into the fictional gospel story.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:46 pm 
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Here's an interesting astrotheology-related discovery. A connection between the king and the sun god - you don't say! Now, who woulda thunk.

The kings of many places in antiquity, such as Mesopotamia, the Levant and Egypt, were likewise associated with the sun. Osiris was the "night sun" of the Egyptians.

Quote:
"Dramatic" New Maya Temple Found, Covered With Giant Faces

Archaeological "gold mine" illuminates connection between king and sun god.

Some 1,600 years ago, the Temple of the Night Sun was a blood-red beacon visible for miles and adorned with giant masks of the Maya sun god as a shark, blood drinker, and jaguar.

Long since lost to the Guatemalan jungle, the temple is finally showing its faces to archaeologists, and revealing new clues about the rivalrous kingdoms of the Maya....

By 2010 archaeologists working on a hilltop near the ancient city center had discovered 45-foot-tall (13-meter-tall) Diablo Pyramid. Atop it they found a royal palace and a tomb, believed to hold the city's first ruler, who lived around A.D. 350 to 400.

Around the same time, Houston and a colleague spotted the first hints of the Temple of the Night Sun, behind the royal tomb on Diablo Pyramid. Only recently, though, have excavations uncovered the unprecedented artworks under centuries of overgrowth.

Solar Power

The sides of the temple are decorated with 5-foot-tall (1.5-meter-tall) stucco masks showing the face of the sun god changing as he traverses the sky over the course of a day.

One mask is sharklike, likely a reference to the sun rising from the Caribbean in the east, Houston said.

The noonday sun is depicted as an ancient being with crossed eyes who drank blood, and a final series of masks resemble the local jaguars, which awake from their jungle slumbers at dusk.

In Maya culture the sun is closely associated with new beginnings and the sun god with kingship, Houston explained. So the presence of solar visages on a temple next to a royal tomb may signify that the person buried inside was the founder of a dynasty—El Zotz's first king.

It's an example of "how the sun itself would have been grafted onto the identity of kings and the dynasties that would follow them," he said in a press statement.

Maya archaeologist David Freidel added, "Houston's hypothesis is likely correct that the building was dedicated to the sun as a deity closely linked to rulership. The Diablo Pyramid will certainly advance our knowledge of Early Classic Maya religion and ritual practice."

Houston's team also found hints that the Maya, who added new layers to the temple over generations, regarded the building as a living being. For example, the noses and mouths of the masks in older, deeper layers of the temple were systematically disfigured.

"This is actually quite common in Maya culture," Houston told National Geographic News. "It's very hard to find any Mayan depiction of the king that doesn't have its eyes mutilated or its nose hacked ... but 'mutilation' is not the appropriate term to describe it. I see it as more of a deactivation.

"It's as if they're turning the masks off in preparation for replicating them in subsequent layers ... It's not an act of disrespect. It's quite the opposite."

"Gold Mine of Information"

Maya scholar Simon Martin said the masks on the newfound El Zotz temple are "completely unique" and valuable, because they could help verify theories about Maya portrayals of the sun god.

"We have images of the sun god at different stages ... but we've never found anything that puts it all together," said Martin, of the University of Pennsylvania Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology, who was not involved in the project.

"We've had to assemble [the sequence] from bits and pieces of information and just trust that we got it right. This could be an opportunity to see the whole thing stage by stage."

The temple is also wonderfully well preserved, Martin added, making it a "real gold mine of information."

Facing Out

Archaeologist Karl Taube points out the craftsmanship of the masks. "They're three-dimensional. The faces push out of the side of the facade. You don't really see that very often ... because if they project too much they fall off. But here they were able to pull it off.

"With the play of light on these things, the faces would have been extremely dramatic," said Taube, of the University of California, Riverside (UCR),who also was not involved in the project.

Project leader Houston added that the masks' color—crimson, according to paint traces—would have also helped them stand out. "With that bright red pigment, it would have had a particularly marked effect at dawn and at the setting of the sun," Houston said.

Blazing red and perched on high, the Temple of the Night Sun was meant "to see and to be seen," Houston said.

Importantly, it would have been noticeable from Tikal, a larger, older, and more powerful kingdom that El Zotz may or may not have been on friendly terms with.

"We tend to think of kings being completely autonomous, but for the Maya, a sacred king was often part of a hierarchy of kings," the Penn Museum's Martin said....

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 5:50 pm 
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Here is an interesting site that shows a possible relationship between the Mayan and the Balinese cultures.

Suppressed By Scholars: Twin Ancient Cultures On Opposite Sides Of The Pacific

The image juxtaposition is especially impressive.

One would think claims such as follows would be of interest to the mainstream:

Quote:
An elephant head on a Mayan sculpture. Elephant heads are prominent in art and sculpture throughout the ancient Americas. This is a bit of a mystery, since elephants were supposed to have disappeared from America about 10,000 years ago as the Ice Ages waned. Scholars in the past who subscribed to diffusionist theories believed the elephant imagery was created by the Mayans either because they themselves originated in the Old World or because they had seen elephants first hand after traveling there themselves. It is also possible that cultures in the Americas are far more ancient than scholars realize, and stretch back to a time when elephants were still living in the Americas. British surgeon and sinologist. W. Perceval Yetts (1878 – 1957) wrote:

“So far back as 1813 doubts were thrown on the autochthony attributed to Maya culture, and about ten years ago the famous anatomist Professor G. Elliot Smith revived some of the old arguments and fortified them with many ingenious speculations of his own…to prove that a certain motive used in Maya design was derived from the Old World. The motive is well displayed twice on a carved monolith at Copan…and Professor Smith champions the identification of these two forms as heads of elephants, and, above all, as heads of Indian elephants.”

—W. Perceval Yetts, Elephants and Maya Art

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:15 am 
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Acharya wrote:


Thanks Acharya, I read the article and the comments.

It is quite a dilemma! On the one hand, the idea that in some way there was a previous 'Golden Age' is attractive. But then, the archaeological record indicates that agriculture was invented within the last ten thousand years. It seems highly unlikely that a hypothesised earlier high civilization had advanced technology that entirely failed to enter the fossil record.

Some comments on this blog article see the conspiracy argument as farcical. You have to draw a very long bow to argue that present-day commercial elites have an interest in suppressing knowledge of the distant past. I agree there is some such case that can be made regarding a paradigm shift from prevailing literal Christian faith, but that should be to a new paradigm that has a strong evidentiary basis, which this Maya-Bali correlation really does not.

For example, the 'elephant' discussed in the blog might actually be a giant anteater. You would think there might be genetic or linguistic or any other evidence to back up the speculation of ancient unknown links across the Pacific, which are only based on apparent similarities in artistic culture.

I prefer to think of the 'Golden Age' in terms of a culture of natural spiritual harmony rather than just measuring it against technological progress. If the dawn of the Holocene ten thousand years ago was a time of peace and abundance, existing humanity at that time may have had thousands of years of simple stability, with culture in tune with nature. In such a context there was no need for technological innovation, which only arose as population pressures created demand for private property. As a result, technology can be associated with a growing alienation from nature, and so with a gradual fall from what Christianity calls grace. This is a model of culture that maps well onto climate cycles of precession.

The evidence that most puzzles me regarding ancient technology is the pyramids of Egypt. Their scale, accuracy and mathematical content are simply unprecedented in human culture. The pyramids remain a mystery, so we should not rush to judgment about other speculation on ancient civilization when we have a massive 'elephant in the room' that still defies explanation.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:09 pm 
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Acharya wrote:

I really enjoyed this part of that lengthy article:

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Why Scholars Fail To Study The Parallels

"These are 12 major parallels still visible in the ruins of the ancient Balinese and ancient Mayan cultures—twin civilizations that developed on opposite sides of the Pacific Ocean who scholars say were never in contact and who scholars believe developed independently of each other. The parallels shared here point to a far different story than scholars tell. The evidence indicates a much deeper relationship shared by the ancient Balinese and ancient Mayans.

Yet establishment scholars are completely ignoring these parallels, not out of spite or because they are purposely trying to cover something up; but because they are being controlled to do so in a way so subtle that even they themselves aren’t unaware of it.

How?

These scholars—mainstream historians and archaeologists—are fundamentally honest and hard-working people who perform the extraordinarily laborious task of unearthing artifacts from our ancient past. When they say “there’s no mystery in the past” and “hyperdiffusionism is an outdated model of history” it seems clear that they themselves genuinely believe it; they’re not trying to deceive the public in any way.

The problem is that they are locked into a particular paradigm that sees our society as the apex and pinnacle of the human story. They view history as a straightforward evolutionary process that went from primitive cavemen through a gradual development into agriculture and then down into the Greeks, Romans, the Middle Ages, and finally the Enlightenment and beginning of Science, all ending with our highly technological civilization of today, which in their minds is the “supreme” one.

They are 100% locked into this “evolutionary” idea of how history works, and so it’s very difficult for them to accept that deep in the remote past there existed a civilization or Golden Age that was even higher than we are, and that was able to do things that we cannot. This is the lens through which they view reality, and so they dismiss any anomalous evidence or find plausible explanations for any evidence that does not jive with this reality.

Moreover, being a “scholar” or an “academic” is a job, a profession, which is part of a larger structure. If you want to get a job as a “scholar” or “academic” you absolutely need to buy into its mindset; buy into the paradigm. If you don’t buy in then you simply won’t get hired, and you won’t climb the ladder and move up. Thinkers and researchers who might have wilder or different or more extra ordinary ideas of the past are thus weeded out so that the ones who are left are those who have bought into the existing paradigm.

Thus, no scholar dares challenge the “established” model against hyperdiffusionism, that is, if he or she wishes to get published or win research grants or move along in the profession. This is the simple way in which research into the human past is being controlled by forces we can’t see and most of us don’t understand."

In Conclusion

"This is a very brief look at highlights of the parallels common to two ancient civilizations separated by the Pacific ocean. Like a jig-saw puzzle, the missing pieces of these twin cultures separated by the Pacific Ocean can be put together to reveal a common ancestry.

Scholars of the 18th, 19th and early 20th century believed they understood this ancestry. According to their research, in the dimness of remote Antiquity, in an age so prehistoric it is now lost to time and memory, there once existed a spiritually-advanced “Golden Age” civilization which far surpassed our own modern society culturally and spiritually. The world’s first cultures were all children of this Golden Age “Mother Culture,” and we can still see traces of it today in the many similarities shared by those civilizations that we understand to be the world’s first cultures.

The trouble is, if you mention this Golden Age culture to scholars by using the words “hyperdiffusion,” “Atlantis” or “Lost Civilization,” then not only have you lost their ear, but you’ve lost the ear of most people who hinge on every word the academics say (without thinking for themselves). Hyperdiffusionism is bubkis; that’s the academic line, and if you don’t tow it you’re through."

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:49 am 
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Robert, I was recently going through youtube vids when I happened across Michael Cremo. His work was clipped on a series about Ancient Knowledge. The series was going over cyclic time models as more likely than the linear paradigm. It's on going and the series hasn't directly covered precession yet, but I assume it's coming. But more to the point, the series is currently left off with Michael Cremo:

Have you investigated any of this yet?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:00 am 
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Tat Tvam Asi wrote:
Michael Cremo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRZL7tcLgX8 Have you investigated any of this yet?


Hi Tat

Cremo is described at Wikipedia as "an American Hindu creationist whose work argues that humans have lived on the earth for billions of years."

I support mainstream science, and this opinion by Cremo flatly contradicts very widely accepted evidence.

It may be that Cremo has some interesting ideas, but I would be strongly prejudiced against him in view of his rejection of scientific consensus. This is a problem that routinely occurs with people studying cyclic theories of time. People who contradict mainstream scientific knowledge lack credibility.

A good polite discussion of Cremo is at NSCE: Review: Forbidden Archaeology's Impact.

My view on the Vedic tradition of the 4.32 billion year long Day of Brahma that Cremo promotes is that early vedic astronomers were possibly aware of the 4.32 thousand year period of two zodiac ages, but over time this knowledge was lost and corrupted into the traditional multi-billion year claim. For Cremo now to present a creationist-style defence of this religious myth is well described at the linked discussion at the Science Education site as showing some effrontery.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:01 am 
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The more I look into it the more I see that he's done something very similar to Cruttenden. Cremo has used the Vedic literature as a starting to point to then search out archaeological evidence in favor of his interpretation of the Vedic literature. So it's running similar to the binary star theory in that way.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 6:21 pm 
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More evidence that astrotheology unites the entire world. In China, astrotheological myths are part of some important celebrations and developments such as their space program.

Every year, the Chinese celebrate a sort of "Valentine's Day" called "Qixi," based on an ancient Milky Way myth involving the stars Vega, Altair, and β and γ Aquilae. Vega is symbolized by the "mother," Zhi Nü (織女), separated by the Milky Way from her husband, Niu Lang (牛郎), or Altair, and their two "children," the stars β and γ of the constellation of Aquila. These "star-crossed lovers" are celebrated yearly in July or August.

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The other important astrotheology development is the naming of the Chinese lunar probes after their moon goddess Chang'e.

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Quote:
The paramount leader of the People's Republic of China from 1978 to 1992 Deng Xiaoping changed the cultural fabric of the Chinese society and decided names used in the space program, previously all chosen from the revolutionary history of the PRC, would be replaced with mystical-religious ones. Thus, new Long March carrier rockets were renamed Divine arrow (神箭), spacecapsule Divine vessel (神舟), space shuttle Divine dragon (神龙), land-based high-power laser Divine light (神光) and supercomputer Divine might (神威).

These poetic names continue as the first, second, third, fourth and fifth Chinese Lunar probes are called Chang'e after the moon goddess. The name "Tiangong" means "heavenly palace". Across the PRC the launch of Tiangong 1 inspired a variety of feelings, including love poetry. Within the PRC, the rendezvous of space vehicles is compared to the dreaming of the cowherd and the weavergirl, Niulang Chinese: 牛郎 and Zhinü Chinese: 織女, lovers separated by the milky way which was scratched there by an angry goddess. Only on the night of sevens, over a bridge made from all of the sympathetic magpies in the world, the lovers may meet. The remainder of the year, Zhinü sits on the banks of the 'milky way' river with two of her children and weaves the clouds, with Niulang on the other side.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:42 pm 
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While we were discussing milky way myths and creation accounts previously, it occurred to me that the answer to the strange sequence of "light" in genesis 1 with light coming before the sun, moon, and stars is probably because of ancient milky way myths. The "let there be light" of the first day could easily reference the milky way lighting up and then the sun, moon, and stars aren't created until 3 days later as if there were some type of "light" before the sun, moon, and stars. If so, then we'd have a strong milky way myth involved in both genesis (first light) and revelation (river of life etc.). And yet another instance of cover to cover astrotheology in the bible...

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:29 am 
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Tat Tvam Asi wrote:
While we were discussing milky way myths and creation accounts previously, it occurred to me that the answer to the strange sequence of "light" in genesis 1 with light coming before the sun, moon, and stars is probably because of ancient milky way myths. The "let there be light" of the first day could easily reference the milky way lighting up and then the sun, moon, and stars aren't created until 3 days later as if there were some type of "light" before the sun, moon, and stars. If so, then we'd have a strong milky way myth involved in both genesis (first light) and revelation (river of life etc.). And yet another instance of cover to cover astrotheology in the bible...

Yes it is an interesting speculation. The fact is that the galaxy existed before the sun.

Egypt also had the 'primordial mound of Atum' which can be interpreted against the Milky Way galaxy as the original god Nu. In the beginning there was only the swirling watery chaos, called Nu. Out of these chaotic waters rose Atum, the sun god. He created himself, using his thoughts and will. In the watery chaos, Atum found no place on which to stand. In the place where he first appeared, he created a hill.

This story of Atum and Nu corresponds to the emergence of the solar system from a cloud of swirling gas.

The points where the zodiac crosses the Milky Way at Gemini/Taurus and Sagittarius/Scorpio are key places in the sky - for example the Epic of Gilgamesh speaks of Scorpio as a heavenly gate. Considering the fall from grace in the Christian myth, this X point can represent the time when the equinox precessed from Gemini into Taurus across the Milky Way. So the cherubim with flaming sword can be seen as representing Gemini, standing across the Milky Way and barring the return of humanity to the past golden age.


Genesis 3:24 "After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life." Humanity is barred by the fall from understanding the natural connection to nature and the cosmos provided by the tree of life as the zodiac.

http://jewishchristianlit.com/Texts/ANE ... esh09.html

Quote:
The Scorpion-Beings
The mountain is called Mashu.
Then he reached Mount Mashu,
which daily guards the rising and setting of the Sun,
above which only the dome of the heavens reaches,
and whose flank reaches as far as the Netherworld below,
there were Scorpion-beings watching over its gate.
Trembling terror they inspire, the sight of them is death,
their frightening aura sweeps over the mountains.
At the rising and setting they watch over the Sun.
When Gilgamesh saw them, trembling terror blanketed his face,
but he pulled himself together and drew near to them.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:40 pm 
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Good stuff, Tat! I like that astrotheological thinking, with an emphasis on "logical." There may be other, metaphysical meaning as well, but such is the case with myths, and it would seem rational to suppose that the ancients themselves - who were obviously quite aware of the Milky Way motif, including as a female goddess - easily might have described the MW in this biblical manner.

Not that it means all that much, since so many words possess gender in many non-English languages, but the Hebrew word for "light," אור 'owr, is a feminine noun. Strong's (H216) defines the word as:

Quote:
1) light
a) light of day
b) light of heavenly luminaries (moon, sun, stars)
c) day-break, dawn, morning light
d) daylight
e) lightning
f) light of lamp
g) light of life
h) light of prosperity
i) light of instruction
j) light of face (fig.)
k) Jehovah as Israel's light

As we can see, although it doesn't specify the Milky Way, the term אור 'owr is applicable to the light of celestial bodies, which would be obvious and which includes the stars in the MW. It would be interesting to do a study of the night sky of the times in the areas in which the OT/Tanakh was composed, i.e., between, say, the sixth and second centuries BCE, depending on the book. What were the most prominent features besides the sun and moon? Venus and Saturn find their way into the OT as well.

Tat Tvam Asi wrote:
While we were discussing milky way myths and creation accounts previously, it occurred to me that the answer to the strange sequence of "light" in genesis 1 with light coming before the sun, moon, and stars is probably because of ancient milky way myths. The "let there be light" of the first day could easily reference the milky way lighting up and then the sun, moon, and stars aren't created until 3 days later as if there were some type of "light" before the sun, moon, and stars. If so, then we'd have a strong milky way myth involved in both genesis (first light) and revelation (river of life etc.). And yet another instance of cover to cover astrotheology in the bible...

Robert, you're really smoking with this stuff!



Fun, isn't it? It all makes sense in the end... The ancients were as intelligent in their myths as they were with their fabulous architecture.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:14 pm 
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ALL religion is egyptian sun worship scholars explain. part 1


part 2

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